6 ms·

> Even if somehow your crackpot theory had merit We try to avoid that kind of tone here, regardless of the merits of anyone's comments.

by rattray 10y ago

stcredzero 10y ago
However, the adjective is an accurate measure of the theory's merit.
- npiazza83 10y ago
  Don't like it? Send an email to hn@ycombinator.com "Tone" policing on HN is getting a bit ridiculous.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    God forfend anyone should try to maintain a quality of discourse that encourages thoughtful people to stick around.
    - npiazza83 10y ago
      Its a difficult distinction to make. I don't think it unreasonable to expect some nuance on the part of moderators. My personal suggestion would be to remove subjective comments more readily in threads related to highly technical topics where there is MUCH to discuss related to the science or engineering of the piece but show some discretion in threads regarding topics which are inherently political or more subjective. So, here, I would actually say moderation is warranted. But if this were a piece on Edward Snowden, perhaps less demand for utter tact. "Only in an irrational and unknown direction can we come to wisdom again."
      - throwanem 10y ago
        The HN moderation staff has a difficult job which they do exceedingly well, and in a thoroughly nuanced fashion. Were this otherwise, discourse here would differ little in quality from what, for example, Reddit provides in such abundance. I appreciate you feel strongly that you can tell HN's moderators how to do their jobs even better. Consider the possibility that this may not be the case.
    - hyperbovine 10y ago
      The thing about thoughtful people is that they dislike being told what to think.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        One might expect they also recognize the difference between being told what to think, and not being told what to think.
        hyperbovine 10y ago
        I'm lost.
        throwanem 10y ago
        I kind of am too. I mean, it sounded as though you were likening someone saying "please don't be rude" to someone telling someone else what to think, but that doesn't even make sense, so...
  - anchpop 10y ago
    I think you may have replied to the wrong comment
aaron695 10y ago
Fact is, the original was very racist. Just cleverly(obviously?) hidden. Why would a country blow up it's own stuff when it's obvious there are better ways. (Undertone they are culturally/genetically stupid) I find this worse, I thought the reply was kinda tempered.
- 5ilv3r 10y ago
  Uh dude? That happens all the time.
- cptskippy 10y ago
  How was it racist?
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Short answer: If this was a french payload no one would be talking about this, even tho the french intelligence services have considerably more resources and a longer operational history than the Israeli ones. Long Answer: How was that not racist? Anyone who cannot see the quite blatant racism (and just to be clear, racism does not universally entail malice) in this "idea" does not understand what racism, cultural bias are and more specifically what is anti semitism. Anti semitism and the overall cultural bias towards the Jewish people isn't distilled into saying "Jews are greedy". The level of attention that the state of Israel receives today is rooted heavily in the cultural bias or European origin that surrounded the Jewish people for centuries especially since the 15th Century onwards. A good parallel would be to explore the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"; regardless of what was the original intent of the author (there is quite strong evidence today that it was intended to be a parody) you can't ignore the fact that it was mostly accepted as "true even if they are fake", even the most liberal intellectuals at the time could not dismiss them offhand as utter hogwash. And that is because they were based on centuries of subtle but ever more growing cultural attribution that made the Jews easy to portray as a cabal of scheming, greedy, backstabbing individuals that are not only aiming for world domination but have already attained it and got their hands in every government and enterprise. These "Protocols" were so powerful that they were accepted by many as a historical fact, in Japan they were so sure they were a true historical document that senior Japanese officers were saving European Jews during the holocaust both out of respect and to gain their assistance in the war effort against the Americans. The "Protocols" today and their more modern updates are still circulated in very large numbers in Latin America, Africa, the Arab world and Asia, and they are mostly accepted as "real even if fake" and even taught at schools. In the near East and N. and W. Africa they are so sure that Israel is all capable that they attribute it almost magical powers, the catching birds and various other animals with Israeli trackers or identification implants as Israeli spies isn't an uncommon occurrence even in more "modern" countries like Egypt and Lebanon. Since these animals are usually executed as spies for public display the Israeli Nature Authority actually stopped marking the country on the more rare species that are tracked by it and by the Israeli chapters of the WWF in order to prevent further degradation in their numbers. Overall the idea of the all powerful, greedy backstabbing Jewish Cabal is still very much alive and kicking, today it's just the all powerful, greedy, backstabbing Zionist Entity, but the root of much of it is the same. Now this isn't to say that every legitimate criticism of Israel like every other nation is due to anti semitism but a lot of it is, the disproportionate level of attention that Israel receives in regards to ever action and event is simply cannot be explained by any other reasoning. Even if we only isolate the conflict in the large scheme of things it's meaningless the amount of casualties is laughably low, lower than every other conflict that has been going on since it was founded by multiple orders of magnitude (70 years of the Israeli Arab conflict at large have seen less casualties than one year of the Syrian civil war, and as far as civil wars go the Syrian one isn't very bloody). Every event and incident involving Israel somehow turns into a conspiracy theory in a heartbeat even tho the Israeli intelligence services are not remarkable in any real way, have considerably less resources than most western agencies, and compared to the comblock/eastern ones are considerably less "aggressive". The funny thing is that if you do look at this from a conspiratorial point of view the only country that had the reason and the ability to both sabotage the rocket and get away with it is the United States. The US always goes out of it's way to block every potential technology transfer from Israel to China [0], while Israel was building the relationship with China for decades. The US has the ability to do w/e it wants with the rocket while Israel not only loses close to half a billion of dollars in the event but actually risks of starting a war with the US if discovered, I'm pretty sure the US invaded countries for less than blowing up a US made rocket on a US military base after infiltrating it with operatives and sabotaging it. But as I've said if this was a French satellite no one would have even be thinking about all of this. [0]http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp473.htm http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp473.htm
hyperbovine 10y ago
Speak for yourself. The tone seems completely appropriate to me.

> Even if somehow your crackpot theory had merit We try to avoid that kind of tone here, regardless of the merits of anyone's comments.

by rattray 10y ago

> Even if somehow your crackpot theory had merit We try to avoid that kind of tone here, regardless of the merits of anyone's comments.

stcredzero 10y ago

However, the adjective is an accurate measure of the theory's merit.

npiazza83 10y ago
Don't like it? Send an email to hn@ycombinator.com "Tone" policing on HN is getting a bit ridiculous.
- throwanem 10y ago
  God forfend anyone should try to maintain a quality of discourse that encourages thoughtful people to stick around.
  - npiazza83 10y ago
    Its a difficult distinction to make. I don't think it unreasonable to expect some nuance on the part of moderators. My personal suggestion would be to remove subjective comments more readily in threads related to highly technical topics where there is MUCH to discuss related to the science or engineering of the piece but show some discretion in threads regarding topics which are inherently political or more subjective. So, here, I would actually say moderation is warranted. But if this were a piece on Edward Snowden, perhaps less demand for utter tact. "Only in an irrational and unknown direction can we come to wisdom again."
    - throwanem 10y ago
      The HN moderation staff has a difficult job which they do exceedingly well, and in a thoroughly nuanced fashion. Were this otherwise, discourse here would differ little in quality from what, for example, Reddit provides in such abundance. I appreciate you feel strongly that you can tell HN's moderators how to do their jobs even better. Consider the possibility that this may not be the case.
  - hyperbovine 10y ago
    The thing about thoughtful people is that they dislike being told what to think.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      One might expect they also recognize the difference between being told what to think, and not being told what to think.
      - hyperbovine 10y ago
        I'm lost.
        throwanem 10y ago
        I kind of am too. I mean, it sounded as though you were likening someone saying "please don't be rude" to someone telling someone else what to think, but that doesn't even make sense, so...
- anchpop 10y ago
  I think you may have replied to the wrong comment

aaron695 10y ago

Fact is, the original was very racist. Just cleverly(obviously?) hidden. Why would a country blow up it's own stuff when it's obvious there are better ways. (Undertone they are culturally/genetically stupid) I find this worse, I thought the reply was kinda tempered.

5ilv3r 10y ago
Uh dude? That happens all the time.
cptskippy 10y ago
How was it racist?
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Short answer: If this was a french payload no one would be talking about this, even tho the french intelligence services have considerably more resources and a longer operational history than the Israeli ones. Long Answer: How was that not racist? Anyone who cannot see the quite blatant racism (and just to be clear, racism does not universally entail malice) in this "idea" does not understand what racism, cultural bias are and more specifically what is anti semitism. Anti semitism and the overall cultural bias towards the Jewish people isn't distilled into saying "Jews are greedy". The level of attention that the state of Israel receives today is rooted heavily in the cultural bias or European origin that surrounded the Jewish people for centuries especially since the 15th Century onwards. A good parallel would be to explore the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"; regardless of what was the original intent of the author (there is quite strong evidence today that it was intended to be a parody) you can't ignore the fact that it was mostly accepted as "true even if they are fake", even the most liberal intellectuals at the time could not dismiss them offhand as utter hogwash. And that is because they were based on centuries of subtle but ever more growing cultural attribution that made the Jews easy to portray as a cabal of scheming, greedy, backstabbing individuals that are not only aiming for world domination but have already attained it and got their hands in every government and enterprise. These "Protocols" were so powerful that they were accepted by many as a historical fact, in Japan they were so sure they were a true historical document that senior Japanese officers were saving European Jews during the holocaust both out of respect and to gain their assistance in the war effort against the Americans. The "Protocols" today and their more modern updates are still circulated in very large numbers in Latin America, Africa, the Arab world and Asia, and they are mostly accepted as "real even if fake" and even taught at schools. In the near East and N. and W. Africa they are so sure that Israel is all capable that they attribute it almost magical powers, the catching birds and various other animals with Israeli trackers or identification implants as Israeli spies isn't an uncommon occurrence even in more "modern" countries like Egypt and Lebanon. Since these animals are usually executed as spies for public display the Israeli Nature Authority actually stopped marking the country on the more rare species that are tracked by it and by the Israeli chapters of the WWF in order to prevent further degradation in their numbers. Overall the idea of the all powerful, greedy backstabbing Jewish Cabal is still very much alive and kicking, today it's just the all powerful, greedy, backstabbing Zionist Entity, but the root of much of it is the same. Now this isn't to say that every legitimate criticism of Israel like every other nation is due to anti semitism but a lot of it is, the disproportionate level of attention that Israel receives in regards to ever action and event is simply cannot be explained by any other reasoning. Even if we only isolate the conflict in the large scheme of things it's meaningless the amount of casualties is laughably low, lower than every other conflict that has been going on since it was founded by multiple orders of magnitude (70 years of the Israeli Arab conflict at large have seen less casualties than one year of the Syrian civil war, and as far as civil wars go the Syrian one isn't very bloody). Every event and incident involving Israel somehow turns into a conspiracy theory in a heartbeat even tho the Israeli intelligence services are not remarkable in any real way, have considerably less resources than most western agencies, and compared to the comblock/eastern ones are considerably less "aggressive". The funny thing is that if you do look at this from a conspiratorial point of view the only country that had the reason and the ability to both sabotage the rocket and get away with it is the United States. The US always goes out of it's way to block every potential technology transfer from Israel to China [0], while Israel was building the relationship with China for decades. The US has the ability to do w/e it wants with the rocket while Israel not only loses close to half a billion of dollars in the event but actually risks of starting a war with the US if discovered, I'm pretty sure the US invaded countries for less than blowing up a US made rocket on a US military base after infiltrating it with operatives and sabotaging it. But as I've said if this was a French satellite no one would have even be thinking about all of this. [0]http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp473.htm http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp473.htm

hyperbovine 10y ago

Speak for yourself. The tone seems completely appropriate to me.