5 ms·

The Lost Art of Typing Shit by Hand

47 points by 3stripe 10y ago

bschwindHN 10y ago
I went through the Rust Mio guide this way, it really helped! Along with learning it better by typing it out, you can compile your code after each line and get better insight into why the code was written the way it was. https://github.com/carllerche/mio/blob/getting-started/doc/getting-started.md https://github.com/carllerche/mio/blob/getting-started/doc/g...
losteverything 10y ago
Before keyboards everyone taking CPS at my university (1978) were taught to write out code in yellow lined paper. We handed in our code to the (female) adjunct for review. Run time was expensive. Then we made our deck of run cards. I used this "write it out by hand first " method during my entire tech career. For me, writing it out was a really good way to learn (next to actually teaching others)
ggambetta 10y ago
I sort of agree with this. I got my start typing listings from Microhobby[1] into a ZX Spectrum... I was around 5, so I guess a big chunk of my early learning was by osmosis! [1] http://www.microhobby.org/ http://www.microhobby.org/
3stripe 10y ago
The Lost Art of Writing by Hand is a thing too. A sad one at that.
inputcoffee 10y ago
Right now, somewhere on the web, someone is writing a blog post about how we should not type things out by hand, why it is a waste of time, how the nature of programming is changing, how the calculator meant that we no longer had to do long division and other contrary points.
- err4nt 10y ago
  Wouldn't that person just use a markov chain to generate the article instead of wasting their time writing every point out by hand ;)
  - inputcoffee 10y ago
    That person might be using the markov chain to go to market fish that answer this question now for all you people out there who know.
camtarn 10y ago
Even if you're not literally typing things by hand, having an attitude of "I won't use this code until I understand what each keyword is actually doing" is very useful. As the article says - learn what each word in "public static void main( String[] args )" actually means. This is the primary reason why old-style Visual Studio Windows programming really freaked me out: you start with a massive template, full of complex-looking code, and you're expected to just ignore it and write your own code in the little marked-out areas. I really like the new approach in C# using partial classes: all you have in your source file is your own code, and it's really easy to see how that maps to the UI that you're building. The rest is under the surface and can be treated as library code.
- hardwaresofton 10y ago
  Someone close to me has been learning to program (self-taught), and this is what I've tried to impress the most, the path to being an intermediate level programmer definitely cuts right through understanding as much as is reasonable about the effects the text you type have. I think it's also hard for this advice to help certain beginners if they don't know where to stop when they start going for knowledge about what's happening... It's so easy to start looking up keywords and all of a sudden end up being bombarded with terms you understand even less.
  - ordu 10y ago
    If they don't know where to stop, then how they can learn where to stop? The only way, I think, is making errors. It's nothing bad in taking a glimpse of something too difficult to understand. Even failed attempts to understand something too difficult is not bad. The only risk is the loss of motivation because of failure.
    - hardwaresofton 10y ago
      So generally I would say that they learn where to stop (or never see the depths of the endless pit that is knowledge in the first place) with the help of a good teacher or textbook. A textbook that tells you just what you need to know, and just enough of what's happening under the covers to let you think you understand, and solidify what you're learning
_virtu 10y ago
I'm a big fan of typing new code. My most recent example was while learning Webpack. You could pick from oodles of pre-existing configuration, but it's meaningless if you just copy and paste it in to your editor. I normally type something out and then if I can't come up with a moderately reasonable assumption about what it does, then I'll pull up the docs and read about it.
- clifanatic 10y ago
  I find that typing things out by hand organizes my brain to focusing on one thing at a time. If I read over a code snippet, I tend to sort of gloss over it; typing it out slows down the thought process a bit so that I can focus on some of the nuance.
  - username3 10y ago
    Watching presenters type code has the same effect.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
coreyp_1 10y ago
Not interested in the vulgarity of the title.
bluenose69 10y ago
This makes a lot of sense. I don't think cut/paste makes anything stick in the head (no pun on "paste"). Maybe this is how my old-fart mind works (I go back to the punched-card days) but I've found that my millennial students also learn more by typing. It's a bit like studying ... using a highlighter can be better than just reading, but to really grasp difficult material, it's important to write things down in your own words/equations.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  It engages additional modes of learning: language based and kinesthetic. Plus it extends understanding.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  Integrating multiple senses into the creation of a memory enables better recall later. Which improves understanding as the material being recalled is, well, more easily brought to the fore. Handwritten notes (even if not reviewed) provide a physical (touch of the paper, movement of the hand) sense to the auditory/visual experience of the lecture. Paper books bring, again, a physical (smell, touch, movement) sense to the act of reading. I've held the same iPad for dozens of books. But I've only held one copy of TaoCP or A Wizard of Earthsea. The hardback covers, the library card, the feel of the worn pages, the smell of the paper, all come together in the mind to create a stronger memory when recalled. This, in turn, is tied to the memory of the contents themselves and so I can recall them with greater ease than from an ebook. Of course an ebook or typed notes offer more than just an audio book (though the experience of a particular road trip tied to the listening will help as much as with the print book) or a lecture with no note taking.
bbctol 10y ago
I don't remember which one, but one of the plethora of "teach yourself to code!" guides floating around the web has all of their code snippets as images, so every time you used one of their example programs, you had to type it in by hand. It was horribly annoying (so I stopped,) but it was a deliberate choice to try and force understanding.
- dceddia 10y ago
  Yeah that seems to go a little too far. There are valid reasons for wanting to copy-paste code, even if it should be typed out most of the time.
paulmd 10y ago
Up next week: "The Lost Art Of Rote Memorization". You see, when I was studying for an amateur radio license, I had a realization. Memorizing page after page of meaningless numbers and acronyms could actually instill a sense of curiousity about what those numbers and acronyms meant. What is a sideband and why does it single? Who is a Hertz? Why would I want to limit third-order distortion to below 0.1% of the principal frequency? You see, nobody had ever told me that it might be good to be curious about the thing I'm doing! Sorry, this is meaningless drivel. Yes, you should know what the keywords do in a function declaration, but once you are aware of what 'static' means then typing it yet one more time does not help you whatsoever in the least. Yes, you should know know what various delimeters do in your language, but if you're not sure just go look it up, it doesn't make sense to fight it. The reality is that there are all kinds of things that are best left in reference material. I have the Regular Expression Cheatsheet pinned right next to my desk; I could easily write a regex without it but by having a reference right there I conserve that mental bandwidth for tasks that matter. Pop quiz: which is the code for a word character, \w or \W? Is that something you want to be thinking about while you're also trying to juggle business logic for three other classes? The same thing applies to all kinds of other things. We have documentation for a reason, memorizing the order of function arguments for a function I only use once a year is a waste of brain space. Some functions have all kinds of quirky behavior that you really need to double-check unless you use it daily - for example, anything in the C stdlib. It's not worth introducing bugs for the sake of avoiding using your IDE. It's true that for skilled programmers, most of what we do is thinking about how to solve the problem rather than mechanically typing it in. But that's no reason to make the act of typing it in needlessly difficult. Programmers have been using intelligent assist systems for as long as we have had interactive computer systems, dating right back to vi/emacs macros. These are a good thing: after I've encapsulated fields in getters/setters for my first five classes, the next thousand that I'm going to do over the course of the year buy me nothing, and I might as well let my IDE handle the mechanical act of declaring ten pairs of getters/setters for yet another class.
- dceddia 10y ago
  Perhaps I should've been clearer in the article, but it's aimed at people learning to program. Absolutely, as a professional, use the tools available to be as efficient as possible. But as a newcomer, relying on tools (and copying jQuery snippets from StackOverflow) too early slows down the learning.
clifanatic 10y ago
Wow, I thought I was the only one who still did this.
bdcravens 10y ago
"How To Start Typing in a World With Ctrl-C" Been a few years since a Windows machine was my daily driver, so I thought, "What does breaking command execution have to do with anything?"
- klodolph 10y ago
  Ctrl-C is how you exit insert mode when you're typing something in, obviously. :-)
ChuckMcM 10y ago
I understand the controversy, In my experience, both statements; 'typing it does nothing' and 'typing it is everything' are accurate. Just for different people. In a similar way, some people don't see music until they play it, some see it before it is played. I really don't know what it is that creates the difference. For me, doing the typing (or writing in my notebook) really connects the knowledge somewhere in my head that is harder to erase/lose than just reading or seeing it. I discovered in college that I could look at a homework problem and solve it but later in an exam couldn't bring back all the finer points of solving it, unless I had actually written down my solution. Very strange but a good thing to know about oneself.
cableshaft 10y ago
If he ever worked with a convoluted business and data layer with about seven layers of boilerplate code that needs to be written every time a new feature is added, I doubt he'd still be singing the tune that everything must be typed. Because typing all that is a chore, not a benefit. But that being said, when learning something new I do tend to type it out myself to help reinforce things. Same reason I handwrote my notes in college. But I'm not going to type everything all the time. I'll get carpal tunnel, and it'd take me a lot longer to get tasks done.
- skywhopper 10y ago
  I think the suggestion to retype was specifically about learning things and not about boilerplate you already understand or don't need to.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    At the same time, why do we tolerate excessive boilerplate in our systems? Particularly in areas where it offers no measurable improvement in the output, and probably a reduction in quality due to the increased opportunity for error.
johnmaguire2013 10y ago
When I was 10, I literally taught myself to program by typing out open source projects by hand, looking up the functions I didn't understand as I went. I truly believe this is one of the best ways to learn.
mi100hael 10y ago
> badassity The word is most definitely "badassery"
- user731955373 10y ago
  correct, probably. however, a 'badassery' sounds more like a place where you would go to eat badass than a 'badassity'.
- dceddia 10y ago
  Pretty sure you're right, but I like "badassity", it's got a nice ring to it. Plus MMM [0] agrees. [0] http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
Houshalter 10y ago
This reminds me that I once made a stupid game where you type code scraped from random github repos. The goal is to predict the next character that will appear. The premise being that typing real code, and consciously trying to predict what will come next, forces you to quickly learn the syntax and style of a new programming language. http://houshalter.github.io/perplex/perplex.html http://houshalter.github.io/perplex/perplex.html
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Wow that is a very clever idea! It seems like though that I would get green letters even though I had never made a guess. For example punctuation, e.g. newlines and whitespace and dots, would be green instead of red, even though I'd not typed any character at all. Awesome idea nonetheless!
  - Houshalter 10y ago
    Oh yes, that was a feature I added. If you don't make a guess, it automatically guesses the most likely next character. You can see in the table to the left what it's predictions are. Which is just the letters most likely to appear after the last letter seen.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      Oh, okay, that makes sense, then. So it's almost like I've got a computer partner that's also "learning" the syntax with me? That's actually really clever, because it helps me by demonstrating correct characters that I wouldn't have otherwise guessed. Very cool!
      - Houshalter 10y ago
        It was originally intended just to be a few hints to make it a bit easier. But I thought it made sense, that if you don't make any guess at all, it might as well guess the most likely character for you, and give you a few free points.
- 10y ago
frozenport 10y ago
How long would it take to type out the CSS from your favorite Bootstrap tutorial :-)
fapjacks 10y ago
Maybe I'm weird, but I still type things out even when I'm copying them from another place. Except, for example, string values or something in configuration data. But if it's just some code I'm learning, I type it all up. I mean, you're trying to learn it, right?
rumcajz 10y ago
I am programming for 30+ years and I am still doing this. As mentioned in the article it's a good way to memorize stuff, but it also acts as a checklist: As I re-type each line I make sure I understand what exactly it is doing and whether that's what I want it to do. It's a good way to reduce bug count IMO.
Grue3 10y ago
Also, handwrite your lecture/conference talk notes. Writing by hand is even better for understanding than typing by hand.

47 points by 3stripe 10y ago

I went through the Rust Mio guide this way, it really helped! Along with learning it better by typing it out, you can compile your code after each line and get better insight into why the code was written the way it was. https://github.com/carllerche/mio/blob/getting-started/doc/getting-started.md https://github.com/carllerche/mio/blob/getting-started/doc/g...

losteverything 10y ago

Before keyboards everyone taking CPS at my university (1978) were taught to write out code in yellow lined paper. We handed in our code to the (female) adjunct for review. Run time was expensive. Then we made our deck of run cards. I used this "write it out by hand first " method during my entire tech career. For me, writing it out was a really good way to learn (next to actually teaching others)

ggambetta 10y ago

I sort of agree with this. I got my start typing listings from Microhobby[1] into a ZX Spectrum... I was around 5, so I guess a big chunk of my early learning was by osmosis! [1] http://www.microhobby.org/ http://www.microhobby.org/

3stripe 10y ago

The Lost Art of Writing by Hand is a thing too. A sad one at that.

inputcoffee 10y ago

Right now, somewhere on the web, someone is writing a blog post about how we should not type things out by hand, why it is a waste of time, how the nature of programming is changing, how the calculator meant that we no longer had to do long division and other contrary points.

err4nt 10y ago
Wouldn't that person just use a markov chain to generate the article instead of wasting their time writing every point out by hand ;)
- inputcoffee 10y ago
  That person might be using the markov chain to go to market fish that answer this question now for all you people out there who know.

camtarn 10y ago

Even if you're not literally typing things by hand, having an attitude of "I won't use this code until I understand what each keyword is actually doing" is very useful. As the article says - learn what each word in "public static void main( String[] args )" actually means. This is the primary reason why old-style Visual Studio Windows programming really freaked me out: you start with a massive template, full of complex-looking code, and you're expected to just ignore it and write your own code in the little marked-out areas. I really like the new approach in C# using partial classes: all you have in your source file is your own code, and it's really easy to see how that maps to the UI that you're building. The rest is under the surface and can be treated as library code.

hardwaresofton 10y ago
Someone close to me has been learning to program (self-taught), and this is what I've tried to impress the most, the path to being an intermediate level programmer definitely cuts right through understanding as much as is reasonable about the effects the text you type have. I think it's also hard for this advice to help certain beginners if they don't know where to stop when they start going for knowledge about what's happening... It's so easy to start looking up keywords and all of a sudden end up being bombarded with terms you understand even less.
- ordu 10y ago
  If they don't know where to stop, then how they can learn where to stop? The only way, I think, is making errors. It's nothing bad in taking a glimpse of something too difficult to understand. Even failed attempts to understand something too difficult is not bad. The only risk is the loss of motivation because of failure.
  - hardwaresofton 10y ago
    So generally I would say that they learn where to stop (or never see the depths of the endless pit that is knowledge in the first place) with the help of a good teacher or textbook. A textbook that tells you just what you need to know, and just enough of what's happening under the covers to let you think you understand, and solidify what you're learning

_virtu 10y ago

I'm a big fan of typing new code. My most recent example was while learning Webpack. You could pick from oodles of pre-existing configuration, but it's meaningless if you just copy and paste it in to your editor. I normally type something out and then if I can't come up with a moderately reasonable assumption about what it does, then I'll pull up the docs and read about it.

clifanatic 10y ago
I find that typing things out by hand organizes my brain to focusing on one thing at a time. If I read over a code snippet, I tend to sort of gloss over it; typing it out slows down the thought process a bit so that I can focus on some of the nuance.
- username3 10y ago
  Watching presenters type code has the same effect.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

coreyp_1 10y ago

Not interested in the vulgarity of the title.

bluenose69 10y ago

This makes a lot of sense. I don't think cut/paste makes anything stick in the head (no pun on "paste"). Maybe this is how my old-fart mind works (I go back to the punched-card days) but I've found that my millennial students also learn more by typing. It's a bit like studying ... using a highlighter can be better than just reading, but to really grasp difficult material, it's important to write things down in your own words/equations.

AstralStorm 10y ago
It engages additional modes of learning: language based and kinesthetic. Plus it extends understanding.
Jtsummers 10y ago
Integrating multiple senses into the creation of a memory enables better recall later. Which improves understanding as the material being recalled is, well, more easily brought to the fore. Handwritten notes (even if not reviewed) provide a physical (touch of the paper, movement of the hand) sense to the auditory/visual experience of the lecture. Paper books bring, again, a physical (smell, touch, movement) sense to the act of reading. I've held the same iPad for dozens of books. But I've only held one copy of TaoCP or A Wizard of Earthsea. The hardback covers, the library card, the feel of the worn pages, the smell of the paper, all come together in the mind to create a stronger memory when recalled. This, in turn, is tied to the memory of the contents themselves and so I can recall them with greater ease than from an ebook. Of course an ebook or typed notes offer more than just an audio book (though the experience of a particular road trip tied to the listening will help as much as with the print book) or a lecture with no note taking.

bbctol 10y ago

I don't remember which one, but one of the plethora of "teach yourself to code!" guides floating around the web has all of their code snippets as images, so every time you used one of their example programs, you had to type it in by hand. It was horribly annoying (so I stopped,) but it was a deliberate choice to try and force understanding.

dceddia 10y ago
Yeah that seems to go a little too far. There are valid reasons for wanting to copy-paste code, even if it should be typed out most of the time.

paulmd 10y ago

Up next week: "The Lost Art Of Rote Memorization". You see, when I was studying for an amateur radio license, I had a realization. Memorizing page after page of meaningless numbers and acronyms could actually instill a sense of curiousity about what those numbers and acronyms meant. What is a sideband and why does it single? Who is a Hertz? Why would I want to limit third-order distortion to below 0.1% of the principal frequency? You see, nobody had ever told me that it might be good to be curious about the thing I'm doing! Sorry, this is meaningless drivel. Yes, you should know what the keywords do in a function declaration, but once you are aware of what 'static' means then typing it yet one more time does not help you whatsoever in the least. Yes, you should know know what various delimeters do in your language, but if you're not sure just go look it up, it doesn't make sense to fight it. The reality is that there are all kinds of things that are best left in reference material. I have the Regular Expression Cheatsheet pinned right next to my desk; I could easily write a regex without it but by having a reference right there I conserve that mental bandwidth for tasks that matter. Pop quiz: which is the code for a word character, \w or \W? Is that something you want to be thinking about while you're also trying to juggle business logic for three other classes? The same thing applies to all kinds of other things. We have documentation for a reason, memorizing the order of function arguments for a function I only use once a year is a waste of brain space. Some functions have all kinds of quirky behavior that you really need to double-check unless you use it daily - for example, anything in the C stdlib. It's not worth introducing bugs for the sake of avoiding using your IDE. It's true that for skilled programmers, most of what we do is thinking about how to solve the problem rather than mechanically typing it in. But that's no reason to make the act of typing it in needlessly difficult. Programmers have been using intelligent assist systems for as long as we have had interactive computer systems, dating right back to vi/emacs macros. These are a good thing: after I've encapsulated fields in getters/setters for my first five classes, the next thousand that I'm going to do over the course of the year buy me nothing, and I might as well let my IDE handle the mechanical act of declaring ten pairs of getters/setters for yet another class.

dceddia 10y ago
Perhaps I should've been clearer in the article, but it's aimed at people learning to program. Absolutely, as a professional, use the tools available to be as efficient as possible. But as a newcomer, relying on tools (and copying jQuery snippets from StackOverflow) too early slows down the learning.

clifanatic 10y ago

Wow, I thought I was the only one who still did this.

bdcravens 10y ago

"How To Start Typing in a World With Ctrl-C" Been a few years since a Windows machine was my daily driver, so I thought, "What does breaking command execution have to do with anything?"

klodolph 10y ago
Ctrl-C is how you exit insert mode when you're typing something in, obviously. :-)

ChuckMcM 10y ago

I understand the controversy, In my experience, both statements; 'typing it does nothing' and 'typing it is everything' are accurate. Just for different people. In a similar way, some people don't see music until they play it, some see it before it is played. I really don't know what it is that creates the difference. For me, doing the typing (or writing in my notebook) really connects the knowledge somewhere in my head that is harder to erase/lose than just reading or seeing it. I discovered in college that I could look at a homework problem and solve it but later in an exam couldn't bring back all the finer points of solving it, unless I had actually written down my solution. Very strange but a good thing to know about oneself.

cableshaft 10y ago

If he ever worked with a convoluted business and data layer with about seven layers of boilerplate code that needs to be written every time a new feature is added, I doubt he'd still be singing the tune that everything must be typed. Because typing all that is a chore, not a benefit. But that being said, when learning something new I do tend to type it out myself to help reinforce things. Same reason I handwrote my notes in college. But I'm not going to type everything all the time. I'll get carpal tunnel, and it'd take me a lot longer to get tasks done.

skywhopper 10y ago
I think the suggestion to retype was specifically about learning things and not about boilerplate you already understand or don't need to.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  At the same time, why do we tolerate excessive boilerplate in our systems? Particularly in areas where it offers no measurable improvement in the output, and probably a reduction in quality due to the increased opportunity for error.

johnmaguire2013 10y ago

When I was 10, I literally taught myself to program by typing out open source projects by hand, looking up the functions I didn't understand as I went. I truly believe this is one of the best ways to learn.

mi100hael 10y ago

> badassity The word is most definitely "badassery"

user731955373 10y ago
correct, probably. however, a 'badassery' sounds more like a place where you would go to eat badass than a 'badassity'.
dceddia 10y ago
Pretty sure you're right, but I like "badassity", it's got a nice ring to it. Plus MMM [0] agrees. [0] http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Houshalter 10y ago

This reminds me that I once made a stupid game where you type code scraped from random github repos. The goal is to predict the next character that will appear. The premise being that typing real code, and consciously trying to predict what will come next, forces you to quickly learn the syntax and style of a new programming language. http://houshalter.github.io/perplex/perplex.html http://houshalter.github.io/perplex/perplex.html

fapjacks 10y ago
Wow that is a very clever idea! It seems like though that I would get green letters even though I had never made a guess. For example punctuation, e.g. newlines and whitespace and dots, would be green instead of red, even though I'd not typed any character at all. Awesome idea nonetheless!
- Houshalter 10y ago
  Oh yes, that was a feature I added. If you don't make a guess, it automatically guesses the most likely next character. You can see in the table to the left what it's predictions are. Which is just the letters most likely to appear after the last letter seen.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    Oh, okay, that makes sense, then. So it's almost like I've got a computer partner that's also "learning" the syntax with me? That's actually really clever, because it helps me by demonstrating correct characters that I wouldn't have otherwise guessed. Very cool!
    - Houshalter 10y ago
      It was originally intended just to be a few hints to make it a bit easier. But I thought it made sense, that if you don't make any guess at all, it might as well guess the most likely character for you, and give you a few free points.
10y ago

frozenport 10y ago

How long would it take to type out the CSS from your favorite Bootstrap tutorial :-)

fapjacks 10y ago

Maybe I'm weird, but I still type things out even when I'm copying them from another place. Except, for example, string values or something in configuration data. But if it's just some code I'm learning, I type it all up. I mean, you're trying to learn it, right?

rumcajz 10y ago

I am programming for 30+ years and I am still doing this. As mentioned in the article it's a good way to memorize stuff, but it also acts as a checklist: As I re-type each line I make sure I understand what exactly it is doing and whether that's what I want it to do. It's a good way to reduce bug count IMO.

Grue3 10y ago

Also, handwrite your lecture/conference talk notes. Writing by hand is even better for understanding than typing by hand.