4 ms·

What ton's of money? Not supporting an ssh server hardly costs anything. Encrypting updates is essentially no engineering once you are digitally signing them fo

by jws 17y ago

What ton's of money? Not supporting an ssh server hardly costs anything. Encrypting updates is essentially no engineering once you are digitally signing them for integrity. I'd like to enhance the firmware of my airport express units, but the firmware encryption stops me. It annoys me, but it didn't cost apple anything to do it.

jrockway 17y ago
OTOH, it didn't cost Linksys anything to make the WRT54G hackable. And guess who sold massively more units.
- ams6110 17y ago
  AFAIK Linksys did not intentionally make the WRT54G hackable; they were forced into releasing the OS source when it was found that it was based on GPLed linux components.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    But they have released several totally new routers that are advertised as being hackable. See the marketing copy here: http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WRT160NL-Wireless-N-Broadband-Compatible/dp/B0028N6VLE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270421023&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WRT160NL-Wireless-N-Broa... Specifically, "The Linux-based open source Wireless-N Broadband Router with Storage Link (WRT160NL) was created specially for hobbyists and wireless aficionados."
    - masomenos 17y ago
      Exactly. Just bought one of those for that exact reason, and will likely be purchasing a few more shortly.
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  I understand Apple's motivation for control although I'm not sure I like it. However, Linksys/Cisco is just selling commodity hardware for low margins. It's not razors & razorblades, and there's no ecosystem to manage. Why should they care if their hardware is used with 3rd party software? I wouldn't have bought my WRT54GL's if I couldn't run DD-WRT on them.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  And guess which is cheaper and available from more places.
- potatolicious 17y ago
  I honestly don't think the WRT54G's success is in any way related to its hackability. Hell, want to compare sales between the WRT54G and the WRT54GL - which is the marketed "hackable" version? The WRT54G was successful because it was the cheapest brand-name wireless router money could buy - it was the Toyota Corolla of routers.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    The WRT54G was hackable long before they realized there was a market and put out the L. The stock WRT54G, L or not, was quite flexible. The L just had more memory and more flash, so you could do crazy things like running spamassassin on your router :)
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      Yes, I realize that - and in fact I have DD-WRT running on my old WRT54G, but our market is not the mass market (I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that point). Sample 100 random WRT54G buyers, how many even knew that the router was hackable, and in the tiny minority that were even aware of such a possibility, how did it account into the purchase decision? Not to knock on the router, but I seriously doubt its hackability had any major influence on its success.
      - jrockway 17y ago
        But using a random version of Linux that they found on the Internet was probably cheaper than developing their own custom OS and DRM scheme. Cheap product development == more profit. And happier users, in this case. The WRT54G shows that an inexpensive product that meets everyone's needs will sell better than an overpriced product that intentionally limits its own functionality.

by jws 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago

OTOH, it didn't cost Linksys anything to make the WRT54G hackable. And guess who sold massively more units.

ams6110 17y ago
AFAIK Linksys did not intentionally make the WRT54G hackable; they were forced into releasing the OS source when it was found that it was based on GPLed linux components.
- jrockway 17y ago
  But they have released several totally new routers that are advertised as being hackable. See the marketing copy here: http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WRT160NL-Wireless-N-Broadband-Compatible/dp/B0028N6VLE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270421023&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-Linksys-WRT160NL-Wireless-N-Broa... Specifically, "The Linux-based open source Wireless-N Broadband Router with Storage Link (WRT160NL) was created specially for hobbyists and wireless aficionados."
  - masomenos 17y ago
    Exactly. Just bought one of those for that exact reason, and will likely be purchasing a few more shortly.
ShabbyDoo 17y ago
I understand Apple's motivation for control although I'm not sure I like it. However, Linksys/Cisco is just selling commodity hardware for low margins. It's not razors & razorblades, and there's no ecosystem to manage. Why should they care if their hardware is used with 3rd party software? I wouldn't have bought my WRT54GL's if I couldn't run DD-WRT on them.
jodrellblank 17y ago
And guess which is cheaper and available from more places.
potatolicious 17y ago
I honestly don't think the WRT54G's success is in any way related to its hackability. Hell, want to compare sales between the WRT54G and the WRT54GL - which is the marketed "hackable" version? The WRT54G was successful because it was the cheapest brand-name wireless router money could buy - it was the Toyota Corolla of routers.
- jrockway 17y ago
  The WRT54G was hackable long before they realized there was a market and put out the L. The stock WRT54G, L or not, was quite flexible. The L just had more memory and more flash, so you could do crazy things like running spamassassin on your router :)
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    Yes, I realize that - and in fact I have DD-WRT running on my old WRT54G, but our market is not the mass market (I'm starting to sound like a broken record on that point). Sample 100 random WRT54G buyers, how many even knew that the router was hackable, and in the tiny minority that were even aware of such a possibility, how did it account into the purchase decision? Not to knock on the router, but I seriously doubt its hackability had any major influence on its success.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      But using a random version of Linux that they found on the Internet was probably cheaper than developing their own custom OS and DRM scheme. Cheap product development == more profit. And happier users, in this case. The WRT54G shows that an inexpensive product that meets everyone's needs will sell better than an overpriced product that intentionally limits its own functionality.