4 ms·

So who judges if Ireland is failing to comply with EU law? Who sanctions it? If you think this is overstepping, I'm sure you've got reasons like "there's no EU

So who judges if Ireland is failing to comply with EU law? Who sanctions it? If you think this is overstepping, I'm sure you've got reasons like "there's no EU law against it"; but turns out there is EU law against these subsidies. That's why I don't see it as overstepping, as long as the process guarantees the right of the parts to defend themselves in court.

neximo64 10y ago
You still misunderstand, Ireland hasn't broken any EU law, simply because the EU has no jurisdiction over Irelands tax policy. The question of who is to judge whether Ireland 'broke the law' is mute. Ireland is a sovereign state & with international affairs there is no bilateral treaty obligating Ireland's tax affairs to be delegated by a third country or organisation such as the EU. You're looking at the EU from a very Amerocentric point of view, the EU is not the US, the EU does not have a federal court with jurisdiction over EU countries on tax affairs. On the question on who judges this, it's Ireland. When a country disagrees with another country its a foreign affairs problem. If China has a trade dispute with the US there is no court that can easily solve it. The equivalent of what you're saying is China ruling US companies to pony up tax with the American countries having no presence in China. There is the WTO, but this isn't that sort of case either. What do China's courts have to do with the USA you ask? The same as the EU's courts have a say over Ireland's tax policy.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  I am sorry, but I believe you are misinformed. This is not about taxes (I can't believe I wrote this sentence at least three times already!). Ireland broke an EU law about about fair competition between companies. They unfairly subsidised Apple in a way not available for other companies. Ireland and all the EU countries agreed to not do that by creating laws against it. Also, I'm not sure why you think I've got a US-centric view. I'm an EU citizen :-)
  - neximo64 10y ago
    I know you have mentioned this, and you do not hear what I'm mentioning. This isn't an EU issue. Apple was given an unfair advantage, which is true. I whole-hearedly agree with you there, I don't think anyone doubts that. When they gave Apple an advantage, they gave it an advantage over Irish firms too - which is unfair. It should not be the EU's role to judge this, it should be something done in Irish courts, to make sure everyone else is treated fairly. The EU is doing a job it should not be doing. This is my point, as I hear yours and I agree with it. After all it is a foreign company given an advantage to local Irish businesses - in Ireland. Other Irish businesses suffer. One day the thing the EU will do will be something very drastic and there will be no recourse.
    - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      The thing is, giving Apple an unfair advantage over other firms operating in Ireland is the same as giving Apple an unfair advantage over firms operating in the EU. Damn, there's a law against it, which has been signed by all EU members - that's hardly overstepping. I guess you would prefer that law didn't exist and I hear you, but whether we like or not, reality is that Ireland broke the law and Apple colluded with them, hence they have to pay back what they owe (and hopefully a fine to not try again).

neximo64 10y ago

You still misunderstand, Ireland hasn't broken any EU law, simply because the EU has no jurisdiction over Irelands tax policy. The question of who is to judge whether Ireland 'broke the law' is mute. Ireland is a sovereign state & with international affairs there is no bilateral treaty obligating Ireland's tax affairs to be delegated by a third country or organisation such as the EU. You're looking at the EU from a very Amerocentric point of view, the EU is not the US, the EU does not have a federal court with jurisdiction over EU countries on tax affairs. On the question on who judges this, it's Ireland. When a country disagrees with another country its a foreign affairs problem. If China has a trade dispute with the US there is no court that can easily solve it. The equivalent of what you're saying is China ruling US companies to pony up tax with the American countries having no presence in China. There is the WTO, but this isn't that sort of case either. What do China's courts have to do with the USA you ask? The same as the EU's courts have a say over Ireland's tax policy.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
I am sorry, but I believe you are misinformed. This is not about taxes (I can't believe I wrote this sentence at least three times already!). Ireland broke an EU law about about fair competition between companies. They unfairly subsidised Apple in a way not available for other companies. Ireland and all the EU countries agreed to not do that by creating laws against it. Also, I'm not sure why you think I've got a US-centric view. I'm an EU citizen :-)
- neximo64 10y ago
  I know you have mentioned this, and you do not hear what I'm mentioning. This isn't an EU issue. Apple was given an unfair advantage, which is true. I whole-hearedly agree with you there, I don't think anyone doubts that. When they gave Apple an advantage, they gave it an advantage over Irish firms too - which is unfair. It should not be the EU's role to judge this, it should be something done in Irish courts, to make sure everyone else is treated fairly. The EU is doing a job it should not be doing. This is my point, as I hear yours and I agree with it. After all it is a foreign company given an advantage to local Irish businesses - in Ireland. Other Irish businesses suffer. One day the thing the EU will do will be something very drastic and there will be no recourse.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    The thing is, giving Apple an unfair advantage over other firms operating in Ireland is the same as giving Apple an unfair advantage over firms operating in the EU. Damn, there's a law against it, which has been signed by all EU members - that's hardly overstepping. I guess you would prefer that law didn't exist and I hear you, but whether we like or not, reality is that Ireland broke the law and Apple colluded with them, hence they have to pay back what they owe (and hopefully a fine to not try again).