6 ms·

Ireland could either: 1) win and things continue as they are 2) lose, and leave the EU 3) lose, and Apple and 1000s of other companies leave Ireland and Irelan

Ireland could either: 1) win and things continue as they are 2) lose, and leave the EU 3) lose, and Apple and 1000s of other companies leave Ireland and Ireland loses in the Long run. If the EU wants taxes to be paid they need to fix local tax laws not chase businesses to pay. Fix why companies offshore this stuff to begin with. Taxes are too high.

masklinn 10y ago
> If the EU wants taxes to be paid Taxes are a red herring, the EU doesn't see this dispute as a tax issue but as a competition issue (which is why it's understood as state aid not as tax policy): by giving them special tax arrangements Ireland is unfairly advantaging Apple against other businesses of the Common Market which don't get to pay sub-unit corporate tax.
- philliphaydon 10y ago
  Sure. So if Australia wants taxes paid in Australia. Be competitive and keep the money local. But Australia doesn't want to be competitive. They keep their high taxes and capital gains so people don't want to own businesses or pay taxes in Australia.
  - masklinn 10y ago
    Wat? The issue at hand isn't low taxes, the commission is just fine with Ireland having low corporate tax, the issue is a special tax deal for specific companies, that's what isn't allowed under EU law on state aid.
    - philliphaydon 10y ago
      An issue that wouldn't exist if taxes were not so high to begin with. It's naive to assume this is about special treatment alone.
      - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
        Apple is free to not sell or operate in the EU, the taxes are just the equivalent fee Amazon or EBay charges you to operate in their markets. If Apple thinks it's too high, no problem, sell somewhere else until the European countries decide it's worth lowering taxes. It's a free market after all and that's what the EU is fighting to keep. I'm extremely surprised to see so many Americans against it - it's the root of your very own system. I guess it's just misinformation.
        philliphaydon 10y ago
        I'm not American, and that's not what the EU is fighting to keep. If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. If the EU gets it's way, it's Ireland that loses, not Apple. The EU was a brilliant idea that has been poorly executed and it should be disbanded completely.
        Oletros 10y ago
        > If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. Are you aware that Ireland pertains to the EU, isn't?
        masklinn 10y ago
        > If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. You're making no sense whatsoever, this isn't about "EU becoming competitive" it's about competitive environment between companies operating in the common market. If one specific company gets a sweetheart corporate tax deal the market is distorted, because every other company has to pay the posted tax rate and doesn't get to keep an additional 10% of their income. And the EU is not "throwing its weight around", the rule on state aid dates back to the foundational EEC treaty (the Treaty of Rome, back in '57), it predates both the modern EU and Ireland's accession to the EEC.
        10y ago

masklinn 10y ago

> If the EU wants taxes to be paid Taxes are a red herring, the EU doesn't see this dispute as a tax issue but as a competition issue (which is why it's understood as state aid not as tax policy): by giving them special tax arrangements Ireland is unfairly advantaging Apple against other businesses of the Common Market which don't get to pay sub-unit corporate tax.

philliphaydon 10y ago
Sure. So if Australia wants taxes paid in Australia. Be competitive and keep the money local. But Australia doesn't want to be competitive. They keep their high taxes and capital gains so people don't want to own businesses or pay taxes in Australia.
- masklinn 10y ago
  Wat? The issue at hand isn't low taxes, the commission is just fine with Ireland having low corporate tax, the issue is a special tax deal for specific companies, that's what isn't allowed under EU law on state aid.
  - philliphaydon 10y ago
    An issue that wouldn't exist if taxes were not so high to begin with. It's naive to assume this is about special treatment alone.
    - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      Apple is free to not sell or operate in the EU, the taxes are just the equivalent fee Amazon or EBay charges you to operate in their markets. If Apple thinks it's too high, no problem, sell somewhere else until the European countries decide it's worth lowering taxes. It's a free market after all and that's what the EU is fighting to keep. I'm extremely surprised to see so many Americans against it - it's the root of your very own system. I guess it's just misinformation.
      - philliphaydon 10y ago
        I'm not American, and that's not what the EU is fighting to keep. If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. If the EU gets it's way, it's Ireland that loses, not Apple. The EU was a brilliant idea that has been poorly executed and it should be disbanded completely.
        Oletros 10y ago
        > If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. Are you aware that Ireland pertains to the EU, isn't?
        masklinn 10y ago
        > If the EU doesn't like that Ireland gave a special deal, then the EU needs to work on becoming competitive, instead of trying to throw it's weight around. You're making no sense whatsoever, this isn't about "EU becoming competitive" it's about competitive environment between companies operating in the common market. If one specific company gets a sweetheart corporate tax deal the market is distorted, because every other company has to pay the posted tax rate and doesn't get to keep an additional 10% of their income. And the EU is not "throwing its weight around", the rule on state aid dates back to the foundational EEC treaty (the Treaty of Rome, back in '57), it predates both the modern EU and Ireland's accession to the EEC.
        10y ago