3 ms·

Again, this is not a tax issue, it is a competition issue. Apple is getting an unfair advantage against other companies, while driving a race to the bottom on t

Again, this is not a tax issue, it is a competition issue. Apple is getting an unfair advantage against other companies, while driving a race to the bottom on taxes paid. It is not just illegal (and IMHO they should be fined on top of the back taxes they're required to pay - Irish government should be fined too), but also immoral. Even worse, Tim Cook's open letter is an insult for Europe's citizens and of extremely poor taste. I've owned several iPhones, Mac laptops and iPads; that ends now. I'm not buying a single Apple device more and I won't spend a penny in their App Store for the devices I have. If Apple doesn't want to pay the price to sell to me (which is to play fair so we can keep our system running), they can pretty much get out of the EU.

neximo64 10y ago
Is is a tax and competition issue. The Irish government has given Apple an advantage using taxes. Thing is, taxes always give someone an advantage and the agreement with the EU member states is that because taxes can give countries an advantage over one an another and it being a contentious issue, the EU will not intervene in it. The issue of taxes supersedes the issue of competition.
- NetStrikeForce 10y ago
  Again, for the third time, this is not a tax issue. Low taxes are fine. There are countries with very low tax inside of or in the sphere of influence of the EU (Andorra, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Luxembourg, The City of London, ...). If Ireland wants to keep this deal going, they have it easy: Change the tax to be 0.005% instead of more than 12%. That's for everyone, not just for Apple and potentially a few other big companies. This is purely looking after the free market and ending unfair state subsidies, it is not about low taxes. if Ireland has a company tax of 0.005% they'll be competing and they'll also spur fair competition inside the country. What we have here is Apple corrupting a government to go against their citizens and their neighbours, by effectively lowering their cost to trade in the EU compared to their competition (Android handset manufacturers as an example).
  - neximo64 10y ago
    Yes you are exactly right! You're missing the point on the EU though. It is not for an EU court to decide this, it is for an Irish court to decide this. The EU should be challenging Ireland to do this, not retroactively changing Ireland's taxes. Either Ireland controls its own tax affairs, and they're equal for everyone (the actual issue) or they don't. The EC is overstepping its bounds, that is the issue you are oblivious to.
    - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      Nope, they're not. This is the result of an investigation. Now Apple can appeal and it can be taken to an European Court. Where's the overstepping again?
      - neximo64 10y ago
        The EU isn't a federation. It's not the United States of Europe. If you're from the US you misunderstand the system. The EU court and EC has no authority to do what its doing now.
        NetStrikeForce 10y ago
        So who judges if Ireland is failing to comply with EU law? Who sanctions it? If you think this is overstepping, I'm sure you've got reasons like "there's no EU law against it"; but turns out there is EU law against these subsidies. That's why I don't see it as overstepping, as long as the process guarantees the right of the parts to defend themselves in court.
        neximo64 10y ago
        You still misunderstand, Ireland hasn't broken any EU law, simply because the EU has no jurisdiction over Irelands tax policy. The question of who is to judge whether Ireland 'broke the law' is mute. Ireland is a sovereign state & with international affairs there is no bilateral treaty obligating Ireland's tax affairs to be delegated by a third country or organisation such as the EU. You're looking at the EU from a very Amerocentric point of view, the EU is not the US, the EU does not have a federal court with jurisdiction over EU countries on tax affairs. On the question on who judges this, it's Ireland. When a country disagrees with another country its a foreign affairs problem. If China has a trade dispute with the US there is no court that can easily solve it. The equivalent of what you're saying is China ruling US companies to pony up tax with the American countries having no presence in China. There is the WTO, but this isn't that sort of case either. What do China's courts have to do with the USA you ask? The same as the EU's courts have a say over Ireland's tax policy.

neximo64 10y ago

Is is a tax and competition issue. The Irish government has given Apple an advantage using taxes. Thing is, taxes always give someone an advantage and the agreement with the EU member states is that because taxes can give countries an advantage over one an another and it being a contentious issue, the EU will not intervene in it. The issue of taxes supersedes the issue of competition.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago
Again, for the third time, this is not a tax issue. Low taxes are fine. There are countries with very low tax inside of or in the sphere of influence of the EU (Andorra, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Luxembourg, The City of London, ...). If Ireland wants to keep this deal going, they have it easy: Change the tax to be 0.005% instead of more than 12%. That's for everyone, not just for Apple and potentially a few other big companies. This is purely looking after the free market and ending unfair state subsidies, it is not about low taxes. if Ireland has a company tax of 0.005% they'll be competing and they'll also spur fair competition inside the country. What we have here is Apple corrupting a government to go against their citizens and their neighbours, by effectively lowering their cost to trade in the EU compared to their competition (Android handset manufacturers as an example).
- neximo64 10y ago
  Yes you are exactly right! You're missing the point on the EU though. It is not for an EU court to decide this, it is for an Irish court to decide this. The EU should be challenging Ireland to do this, not retroactively changing Ireland's taxes. Either Ireland controls its own tax affairs, and they're equal for everyone (the actual issue) or they don't. The EC is overstepping its bounds, that is the issue you are oblivious to.
  - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
    Nope, they're not. This is the result of an investigation. Now Apple can appeal and it can be taken to an European Court. Where's the overstepping again?
    - neximo64 10y ago
      The EU isn't a federation. It's not the United States of Europe. If you're from the US you misunderstand the system. The EU court and EC has no authority to do what its doing now.
      - NetStrikeForce 10y ago
        So who judges if Ireland is failing to comply with EU law? Who sanctions it? If you think this is overstepping, I'm sure you've got reasons like "there's no EU law against it"; but turns out there is EU law against these subsidies. That's why I don't see it as overstepping, as long as the process guarantees the right of the parts to defend themselves in court.
        neximo64 10y ago
        You still misunderstand, Ireland hasn't broken any EU law, simply because the EU has no jurisdiction over Irelands tax policy. The question of who is to judge whether Ireland 'broke the law' is mute. Ireland is a sovereign state & with international affairs there is no bilateral treaty obligating Ireland's tax affairs to be delegated by a third country or organisation such as the EU. You're looking at the EU from a very Amerocentric point of view, the EU is not the US, the EU does not have a federal court with jurisdiction over EU countries on tax affairs. On the question on who judges this, it's Ireland. When a country disagrees with another country its a foreign affairs problem. If China has a trade dispute with the US there is no court that can easily solve it. The equivalent of what you're saying is China ruling US companies to pony up tax with the American countries having no presence in China. There is the WTO, but this isn't that sort of case either. What do China's courts have to do with the USA you ask? The same as the EU's courts have a say over Ireland's tax policy.