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The top MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance in a way that is really bad for the country. They create a set of "high priests" that often believe themselves su

The top MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance in a way that is really bad for the country. They create a set of "high priests" that often believe themselves superior to the rest of us. This is why, for example, entrepreneurs pay legal fees in VC deals; because the "business people" are just so great that you should pay them for existing. We need people who are skilled in business, but what we don't need is an echo chamber that encourages many of them to become arrogant, unethical, short-sighted fucks.

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karl11 17y ago
I completely disagree. This is just another selection bias. The loudest, most obnoxious MBAs are the ones you are most likely to hear about. Saying that MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance, bad ethics and short sightedness is like saying that CS programs nurture introversion, poor social skills and an inability to communicate effectively. There are tens of thousands of highly successful MBAs running or working in small businesses you've never heard of, not generating any noise, and contributing a great deal to society. To lump them all together as a bunch of frat boy lunatics is ignorant. Any hacker that has a terrible experience with an MBA is going to write a blog post about how awful it was and how MBAs need to be cut out of the process. The truth is, there are plenty that provide a lot of value and insight, but no one writes about them because no one wants to read it.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  Saying that MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance, bad ethics and short sightedness is like saying that CS programs nurture introversion, poor social skills and an inability to communicate effectively. I actually would say this, not about CS programs per se, but about academia. There are tens of thousands of highly successful MBAs running or working in small businesses you've never heard of, not generating any noise, and contributing a great deal to society. To lump them all together as a bunch of frat boy lunatics is ignorant. The same goes about PhDs and ex-academics. A lot of them are socially normal, but people tend to notice the aggregate tendencies and turn them into stereotypes. As for MBAs, I don't think the stereotype is remotely true of each individual, but it is true of a certain culture that exists in MBA programs. To be fair, I doubt it has much to do with programs themselves; the students track it in from investment banks and corporate boardrooms. So, even though the programs are designed with great intentions, a certain set of people get in and feed off each other. This is much like how prisons are supposed to reform criminals, but some of them just use the exposure to others to learn how to become better at crime.
balding_n_tired 17y ago
Is Hacker News a realm of modesty? It seems to me that there is an implicit assumption here that the world is organized in descending order by programming mastery, something like Lisp/Erland/Haskell -> Ruby -> Python -> Perl -> Java -> VB -> the entirely unwashed.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  That's an excellent order of language quality, but: 1. There are more good Java hackers than good Lisp hackers, although the proportion of good programmers is much higher in the Lisp camp. 2. At this point, I'd put Java ahead of Perl for most purposes. 3. There are a lot of smart people who program but, for whatever reason, never become good programmers. Examples would be traders who use VB because it interfaces well with spreadsheets and scientists using Fortran. This shouldn't be terribly surprising; everyone speaks and writes but not all smart people are articulate and good writers.

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karl11 17y ago

I completely disagree. This is just another selection bias. The loudest, most obnoxious MBAs are the ones you are most likely to hear about. Saying that MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance, bad ethics and short sightedness is like saying that CS programs nurture introversion, poor social skills and an inability to communicate effectively. There are tens of thousands of highly successful MBAs running or working in small businesses you've never heard of, not generating any noise, and contributing a great deal to society. To lump them all together as a bunch of frat boy lunatics is ignorant. Any hacker that has a terrible experience with an MBA is going to write a blog post about how awful it was and how MBAs need to be cut out of the process. The truth is, there are plenty that provide a lot of value and insight, but no one writes about them because no one wants to read it.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
Saying that MBA programs nurture extreme arrogance, bad ethics and short sightedness is like saying that CS programs nurture introversion, poor social skills and an inability to communicate effectively. I actually would say this, not about CS programs per se, but about academia. There are tens of thousands of highly successful MBAs running or working in small businesses you've never heard of, not generating any noise, and contributing a great deal to society. To lump them all together as a bunch of frat boy lunatics is ignorant. The same goes about PhDs and ex-academics. A lot of them are socially normal, but people tend to notice the aggregate tendencies and turn them into stereotypes. As for MBAs, I don't think the stereotype is remotely true of each individual, but it is true of a certain culture that exists in MBA programs. To be fair, I doubt it has much to do with programs themselves; the students track it in from investment banks and corporate boardrooms. So, even though the programs are designed with great intentions, a certain set of people get in and feed off each other. This is much like how prisons are supposed to reform criminals, but some of them just use the exposure to others to learn how to become better at crime.

balding_n_tired 17y ago

Is Hacker News a realm of modesty? It seems to me that there is an implicit assumption here that the world is organized in descending order by programming mastery, something like Lisp/Erland/Haskell -> Ruby -> Python -> Perl -> Java -> VB -> the entirely unwashed.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
That's an excellent order of language quality, but: 1. There are more good Java hackers than good Lisp hackers, although the proportion of good programmers is much higher in the Lisp camp. 2. At this point, I'd put Java ahead of Perl for most purposes. 3. There are a lot of smart people who program but, for whatever reason, never become good programmers. Examples would be traders who use VB because it interfaces well with spreadsheets and scientists using Fortran. This shouldn't be terribly surprising; everyone speaks and writes but not all smart people are articulate and good writers.