4 ms·

Well given his mother is by definition the training set, surely the machine can only perform as good as or worse than her...?

by yomly 10y ago

coldtea 10y ago
There's no reason to presume that. It's not like conveying knowledge in the sense of information transfer (where by definition a student can't know more than their teacher -- without external help). It's like teaching a skill. In human terms, a person can get to play better piano than their piano teacher, better poker than the person who taught them poker etc. As the "training set" she just gives the basic skills for the recognition. The algorithm could discover further patterns she can't see beyond what she knows (e.g. she knows just that greener ones are usually better, but the algorithm notices that greener and taller are usually also better), do the calculations much faster and consider many patterns while the woman does a more shallow examination, etc.
- dangerlibrary 10y ago
  In order to get the necessary data for a machine to bootstrap new criteria, wouldn't you need an independent scoring function for each sample? How are you going to get that data - are you going to auction off individual cucumbers? Alternatively, you could track each cucumber with an Independent ID to see when it is sold, relative to other cucumbers - on the assumption that people are selecting the best from any given batch? But then you'd need to control for things like the position of the cucumbers in the display. Now you're in pretty deep into someone else's business, because you're a wholesaler, and the data will still be insanely noisey.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >In order to get the necessary data for a machine to bootstrap new criteria, wouldn't you need an independent scoring function for each sample? Merely having an experienced human score images for them can be enough for the machine to self-discover new criteria based on the pictures and their scores.
  - yomly 10y ago
    This is what I was getting at - from the information at hand, the mother's classification seemed to be the definition i.e. She had 100% accuracy because whatever she classified was the right answer
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Yes, but the machine could e.g. learn to see patterns present in her classifications that she can't see or haven't figured out (relying on fewer other patterns) and thus fare better.

Well given his mother is by definition the training set, surely the machine can only perform as good as or worse than her...?

by yomly 10y ago

Well given his mother is by definition the training set, surely the machine can only perform as good as or worse than her...?

coldtea 10y ago

There's no reason to presume that. It's not like conveying knowledge in the sense of information transfer (where by definition a student can't know more than their teacher -- without external help). It's like teaching a skill. In human terms, a person can get to play better piano than their piano teacher, better poker than the person who taught them poker etc. As the "training set" she just gives the basic skills for the recognition. The algorithm could discover further patterns she can't see beyond what she knows (e.g. she knows just that greener ones are usually better, but the algorithm notices that greener and taller are usually also better), do the calculations much faster and consider many patterns while the woman does a more shallow examination, etc.

dangerlibrary 10y ago
In order to get the necessary data for a machine to bootstrap new criteria, wouldn't you need an independent scoring function for each sample? How are you going to get that data - are you going to auction off individual cucumbers? Alternatively, you could track each cucumber with an Independent ID to see when it is sold, relative to other cucumbers - on the assumption that people are selecting the best from any given batch? But then you'd need to control for things like the position of the cucumbers in the display. Now you're in pretty deep into someone else's business, because you're a wholesaler, and the data will still be insanely noisey.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >In order to get the necessary data for a machine to bootstrap new criteria, wouldn't you need an independent scoring function for each sample? Merely having an experienced human score images for them can be enough for the machine to self-discover new criteria based on the pictures and their scores.
- yomly 10y ago
  This is what I was getting at - from the information at hand, the mother's classification seemed to be the definition i.e. She had 100% accuracy because whatever she classified was the right answer
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Yes, but the machine could e.g. learn to see patterns present in her classifications that she can't see or haven't figured out (relying on fewer other patterns) and thus fare better.