4 ms·

This is called supply and demand. The most flagrant abusers of the H1-B system use it to artificially increase supply of workers to depress costs. If the costs

by evgen 10y ago

This is called supply and demand. The most flagrant abusers of the H1-B system use it to artificially increase supply of workers to depress costs. If the costs rise to the point where retraining is considered an appealing option I don't see how that is a problem.

icebraining 10y ago
I'd say the supply of workers is artificially being kept low; there's nothing "natural" about immigration restrictions. Of course, I also don't agree with the use of "artificial" as a synonym for bad (or good).
- rayiner 10y ago
  Sure it's natural. Just about the first thing any social mammals do is figure out how to control group membership and access to shared resources.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    In the abstract, sure, but the whole edifice of legislation of citizenship, visas, etc is as artificial as it gets.
    - rayiner 10y ago
      That's like saying that eating is artificial because we do it at Chipotle. The mechanism is highly artificial, but the basic function is natural.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Another thing which is natural is killing the men of the outgroup (typically defined as "those folks who look different than us"), raping their women and stealing their resources.
    - rayiner 10y ago
      Which would be a relevant point if we were discussing whether it's "good" because it's "natural." But here the point is simply that it's "not artificial" because its "natural."
      - davidivadavid 10y ago
        That point sounds like a tautology.
- evgen 10y ago
  Actually, since control of one's borders is one of the core principles in the definition of sovereignty, it seems that immigration restrictions are quite natural to how we have organized our societies. Like it or not, we define our societies and nations around very simple us/them constructs and eliminating the desires of the bulk of the population to control what portion of "them" gets to become "us" is not going to change any time soon.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- Avshalom 10y ago
  We can restrict H1-B visas and increase other visas or make the citizenship path shorter/easier.

by evgen 10y ago

icebraining 10y ago

I'd say the supply of workers is artificially being kept low; there's nothing "natural" about immigration restrictions. Of course, I also don't agree with the use of "artificial" as a synonym for bad (or good).

rayiner 10y ago
Sure it's natural. Just about the first thing any social mammals do is figure out how to control group membership and access to shared resources.
- icebraining 10y ago
  In the abstract, sure, but the whole edifice of legislation of citizenship, visas, etc is as artificial as it gets.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    That's like saying that eating is artificial because we do it at Chipotle. The mechanism is highly artificial, but the basic function is natural.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Another thing which is natural is killing the men of the outgroup (typically defined as "those folks who look different than us"), raping their women and stealing their resources.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Which would be a relevant point if we were discussing whether it's "good" because it's "natural." But here the point is simply that it's "not artificial" because its "natural."
    - davidivadavid 10y ago
      That point sounds like a tautology.
evgen 10y ago
Actually, since control of one's borders is one of the core principles in the definition of sovereignty, it seems that immigration restrictions are quite natural to how we have organized our societies. Like it or not, we define our societies and nations around very simple us/them constructs and eliminating the desires of the bulk of the population to control what portion of "them" gets to become "us" is not going to change any time soon.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Avshalom 10y ago
We can restrict H1-B visas and increase other visas or make the citizenship path shorter/easier.