8 ms·

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious nav

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

ultramancool 10y ago
Alcohol is probably only legal because it's easy to make and has existed in the culture for ages, nothing to do with any ailments. History defines the laws far more than logic does.
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  Specific background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_... And the Ken Burns documentary is fantastic: http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/ http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/
- smcl 10y ago
  What do you mean "nothing to do with any ailments"?
  - ultramancool 10y ago
    Just that the harm caused by it is not a major factory in its legal status.
    - smcl 10y ago
      AH ok - I wasn't sure if you were suggesting it wasn't responsible for any health issues, but quite the opposite :)
wastedhours 10y ago
I'm intrigued by this line of argument - have always assumed it's mainly because alcohol can be enjoyed on its own merits, whereas most drugs are taken solely for the impact on the mind (e.g. wine for taste etc...).
- Nursie 10y ago
  If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.
  - wastedhours 10y ago
    Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...
    - vidarh 10y ago
      Most alcoholic drinks are extremely acquired tastes. Try finding people who haven't drunk much alcohol before adulthood and give them tastes of a selection of beers and wines, and I'd be willing to bet that most would find most of them disgusting. I'm 41, and I still haven't acquired a taste for beer. I find it absolutely awful. I can tolerate most wines, but outside of extremely sweet dessert wines I have never tasted any that actually taste particularly enjoyable to me. I'm sure I could change that if I forced myself to drink more, but I don't really have any incentive to do so. There are liquors that taste nice to me, but they are generally the ones that hide the alcohol taste quite well, like e.g. amaretto. I'm sure taste is an element of it, but the point being that very few alcoholic drinks taste nice until you've spent a lot of time getting accustomed to the taste of alcohol without enjoying the taste first due to social expectations or a desire to get drunk.
      - wastedhours 10y ago
        There's a very similar argument for dark chocolate - most children hate the taste, but as their palettes develop they acquire the taste for it. My parents introduced alcohol to us from a young age so that it was never a rebellious activity in later years - but since we're in the land of anecdotes again, my original opinion still holds: noone has ever argued they take drugs because they enjoy anything other than the mind altering effects, whereas there are plenty of people who enjoy alcohol for reasons other than those.
tigershark 10y ago
It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.
- ghshephard 10y ago
  Some objective research is useful here. Lancet did an evaluation across multiple spectrums, harm to self, harm to environment, harm to society, harm to others, crime, etc... (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_King_LA_Phillips_LD_Drug_harms_in_the_UK_a_multicriteria_decision_analysis_Lancet_376_1558-1565 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_Ki...) - in particular, check out the graph down the page. Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances, LSD ranks far lower in this scale. Importantly, Alcohol results in a lot of harm to other people (violence, drunk driving, etc...).
  - tigershark 10y ago
    Let's give anyone that wants a glass of wine a shot of heroin then, we'll save the world because we are giving them a chance to use a less dangerous drugs. I'll be quite curious to see how it goes, as you say only 25% of heroin users might become addicted. And of course more than 1/4 of the people that drinks a glass of wine is an addict, as you can see around you. :)
    - Nursie 10y ago
      Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? The post you reply to compares alcohol and LSD. The abstract of the linked paper says that heroin is one of the most harmful drugs, more so than alcohol to the user, but grouped with alcohol in terms of harm to others.
      - kgwgk 10y ago
        > Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? Maybe he read it in the message he was replying to? "Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances"
Gibbon1 10y ago
LSD is illegal because of 60's era moral panic, plus the drug companies trying to divert attention away from the harm that amphetamines were causing.

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

ultramancool 10y ago

Alcohol is probably only legal because it's easy to make and has existed in the culture for ages, nothing to do with any ailments. History defines the laws far more than logic does.

aaronbrethorst 10y ago
Specific background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_... And the Ken Burns documentary is fantastic: http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/ http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/prohibition/
smcl 10y ago
What do you mean "nothing to do with any ailments"?
- ultramancool 10y ago
  Just that the harm caused by it is not a major factory in its legal status.
  - smcl 10y ago
    AH ok - I wasn't sure if you were suggesting it wasn't responsible for any health issues, but quite the opposite :)

wastedhours 10y ago

I'm intrigued by this line of argument - have always assumed it's mainly because alcohol can be enjoyed on its own merits, whereas most drugs are taken solely for the impact on the mind (e.g. wine for taste etc...).

Nursie 10y ago
If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.
- wastedhours 10y ago
  Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...
  - vidarh 10y ago
    Most alcoholic drinks are extremely acquired tastes. Try finding people who haven't drunk much alcohol before adulthood and give them tastes of a selection of beers and wines, and I'd be willing to bet that most would find most of them disgusting. I'm 41, and I still haven't acquired a taste for beer. I find it absolutely awful. I can tolerate most wines, but outside of extremely sweet dessert wines I have never tasted any that actually taste particularly enjoyable to me. I'm sure I could change that if I forced myself to drink more, but I don't really have any incentive to do so. There are liquors that taste nice to me, but they are generally the ones that hide the alcohol taste quite well, like e.g. amaretto. I'm sure taste is an element of it, but the point being that very few alcoholic drinks taste nice until you've spent a lot of time getting accustomed to the taste of alcohol without enjoying the taste first due to social expectations or a desire to get drunk.
    - wastedhours 10y ago
      There's a very similar argument for dark chocolate - most children hate the taste, but as their palettes develop they acquire the taste for it. My parents introduced alcohol to us from a young age so that it was never a rebellious activity in later years - but since we're in the land of anecdotes again, my original opinion still holds: noone has ever argued they take drugs because they enjoy anything other than the mind altering effects, whereas there are plenty of people who enjoy alcohol for reasons other than those.

tigershark 10y ago

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

ghshephard 10y ago
Some objective research is useful here. Lancet did an evaluation across multiple spectrums, harm to self, harm to environment, harm to society, harm to others, crime, etc... (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_King_LA_Phillips_LD_Drug_harms_in_the_UK_a_multicriteria_decision_analysis_Lancet_376_1558-1565 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_Ki...) - in particular, check out the graph down the page. Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances, LSD ranks far lower in this scale. Importantly, Alcohol results in a lot of harm to other people (violence, drunk driving, etc...).
- tigershark 10y ago
  Let's give anyone that wants a glass of wine a shot of heroin then, we'll save the world because we are giving them a chance to use a less dangerous drugs. I'll be quite curious to see how it goes, as you say only 25% of heroin users might become addicted. And of course more than 1/4 of the people that drinks a glass of wine is an addict, as you can see around you. :)
  - Nursie 10y ago
    Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? The post you reply to compares alcohol and LSD. The abstract of the linked paper says that heroin is one of the most harmful drugs, more so than alcohol to the user, but grouped with alcohol in terms of harm to others.
    - kgwgk 10y ago
      > Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? Maybe he read it in the message he was replying to? "Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances"

Gibbon1 10y ago

LSD is illegal because of 60's era moral panic, plus the drug companies trying to divert attention away from the harm that amphetamines were causing.