4 ms·

Please, we aren't rational. The ideas just provide a narrative wrapper for our stew of inclinations. Fine philosophies will not improve things. My bet is on dr

• stcredzero 10y ago
  How about the idea that one should be kind and treat all people with dignity?
  • swayvil 10y ago
    I don't know, how about it? Give me more to work with here.
    • stcredzero 10y ago
      I meant that as an addition to your list.
      • swayvil 10y ago
        No, I don't think that idea, holding it or conveying it, has commensurate ability to change perspectives or raise consciousness. Not comparable to drugs/art/meditation. Not at all.
        • stcredzero 10y ago
          ...because what other people might have to say isn't particularly important, so behaving in a way that best ensures others will be willing to share truthful opinions isn't of any particular value? You've never had your perspective changed or consciousness raised by something someone said unexpectedly? If your answer is "no" I'd posit that that is a particularly interesting piece of data.
          • swayvil 10y ago
            Now slow down there slick, I didn't say any of that. It's a matter of what has greater impact. Drugs/art/meditation, as a rule, are a greater force for changing perspectives than ideas are. That's just how it is.
  • andreasvc 10y ago
    Sounds great, but in practice people will take advantage of you; e.g., if you walk alone in the street at night in a big city and a stranger asks to use your mobile phone, you'd have to be particularly naive to say yes.
    • stcredzero 10y ago
      Saying yes in that case wouldn't be required. I'd say, sorry, I can't help you, then walk on. In my case, with those sorts of requests, I often say, sorry, I have to follow a rule about that, which is true. I have a personal code of conduct that forbids my satisfying requests like that.
      • andreasvc 10y ago
        Sure but that illustrates my point: applying as much kindness as possible is not what people actually strive for nor would it be a solution. Preventing being taken advantage of takes priority.
        • stcredzero 10y ago
          Sure but that illustrates my point: applying as much kindness as possible is not what people actually strive for nor would it be a solution. Preventing being taken advantage of takes priority. Look at my post: I only say you should treat people with kindness. You are saying some nonsense about "applying as much kindness as possible." Is it a habit you have of putting words into another's mouth. This is a Strawman, either intentional or unintentional. It's generally possible to be kind while also protecting yourself. It's only in very extreme circumstances where it's not. Calm, speaking interactions generally do not fall into this category.
          • andreasvc 10y ago
            I don't see such a large difference between your wording and mine; "should" implies making some kind of best effort at doing something where possible. But regardless, where we differ is that I think that people are generally neutral or indifferent instead of kind. I don't believe this can be radically changed in a way that works out, that would be Utopian thinking. I gave you a very common example where being kind is not advisable, yet you claim this happens only in very extreme circumstances. I'm curious how you arrived at such a conviction.
• andreasvc 10y ago
  Saying we aren't rational is not an argument that philosophy cannot improve our lives. In ancient Greece the latter used to be an important part of philosophy. I think schools such as stoicism and epicureanism have a lot to offer.
  • swayvil 10y ago
    If we are not rational. If we are, fundamentally, something other than rational. That is, if rationality is optional, to be put aside when it doesn't suit us. Or if rationality is an expression of an underlying form, like a glove over a hand. Then, if we want to address a person, to influence him or whatever, then we would do well to address that fundamental form and not that optional, superficial expression.