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I'm a developer. I recently moved to Ann Arbor. I've worked for startups my entire career, only the most recent of which even has an office in SF. Our office th

I'm a developer. I recently moved to Ann Arbor. I've worked for startups my entire career, only the most recent of which even has an office in SF. Our office there is small, and contains only a small fraction of our sales staff and the people that need to interact with VCs. I would need to make upwards of $400-500k / year in SF to get the quality of life I get here. Here, there are good school districts, affordable real estate, affordable child care, and low crime rates. No subset of the city perpetually smells like human excrement and trash. I bought a house less than a mile from downtown, and not only can I afford the mortgage, I put 20% down and I can continue to save aggressively. We have a yard substantially larger than a postage stamp. There's a large public park a quarter mile down the street, and a smaller one at the end of my block. My wife can walk to work in ten minutes. SF is a bustling center of activity in my industry, but it's also a money pit. It's not worth it for me to locate myself there.

ryandrake 10y ago
All your points are good. As someone who suffered a 6X cost of living increase (but only a 1.5X salary increase) when moving from Flyover, USA to Silicon Valley, I'd love to go back. I hate my 2+ hour (each way) commute. I hate that I can no longer save. I can't stand living in a small space on a tiny lot and paying enormously for it. But you know what I hate more? The feeling that when I need to find my next job, I will have only a handful of local employers to choose from or will have to move to another state to find employment. You always have that hanging over you when you're living in a non tech hub. Here, things suck but at least if you have 10 days you can interview at 10 tech companies all in the same area. That's priceless.
- dangerlibrary 10y ago
  It may be priceless to you, but my utility from marginally increased income stability does not asymptotically approach infinity at "an interview per day".
- bigtunacan 10y ago
  I'm really surprised by all of the next job worry. I'm a software developer in Iowa and have been doing this right here for 18 years now and that has never been a concern. I was once out of work for about 2 months after being laid off from a start-up after the main VC investor backed out. I have spent a lot of time interviewing candidates and it is much harder for me to hire than it is for me to go find a job. I have a nice large home in a quiet neighborhood with easy access to anywhere I want to go. I raise three kids and still manage to invest about 50K a year into retirement every year and so I will retire early with millions saved. There is so much FUD from everyone that doesn't live here. Please keep thinking the same way though. If everyone catches on and moves here eventually we really will be the next silicon valley; to that I say, "No thanks."
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Interesting. Do you happen to know roughly how many software engineer-hiring companies are within a commutable radius from your home?
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    I live in Chicago and it can be a bit tough finding the next gig here. Lots of people are hiring, but no one ever seems to be in a big hurry. I had one recruiter touching base with me for over two months as one startup took their time to schedule a second phone interview with me (I was still in contention, they just have a dirt slow process. The recruiter had complained to them about it before). By the time they were ready, I had finally found something new, but that was after four months (they contacted me when I was 2 months unemployed). I've also had people submit changes in their requirements to recruiters before a phone interview so I was no longer had enough years of experience for them (and I have quite a few), contact me about setting up an interview and then never end up emailing me to confirm a final time, all sorts of stupid stuff that's happened. I'm at a new company now (in the Chicago area) and even though we've lost four people and we're 'desperate for new developers' according to the boss, we haven't had a new hire in at least six months. I doubt this kind of crap happens with companies at SV, because they wouldn't be able to hire anyone because other companies would snatch them up too quick.

ryandrake 10y ago

All your points are good. As someone who suffered a 6X cost of living increase (but only a 1.5X salary increase) when moving from Flyover, USA to Silicon Valley, I'd love to go back. I hate my 2+ hour (each way) commute. I hate that I can no longer save. I can't stand living in a small space on a tiny lot and paying enormously for it. But you know what I hate more? The feeling that when I need to find my next job, I will have only a handful of local employers to choose from or will have to move to another state to find employment. You always have that hanging over you when you're living in a non tech hub. Here, things suck but at least if you have 10 days you can interview at 10 tech companies all in the same area. That's priceless.

dangerlibrary 10y ago
It may be priceless to you, but my utility from marginally increased income stability does not asymptotically approach infinity at "an interview per day".
bigtunacan 10y ago
I'm really surprised by all of the next job worry. I'm a software developer in Iowa and have been doing this right here for 18 years now and that has never been a concern. I was once out of work for about 2 months after being laid off from a start-up after the main VC investor backed out. I have spent a lot of time interviewing candidates and it is much harder for me to hire than it is for me to go find a job. I have a nice large home in a quiet neighborhood with easy access to anywhere I want to go. I raise three kids and still manage to invest about 50K a year into retirement every year and so I will retire early with millions saved. There is so much FUD from everyone that doesn't live here. Please keep thinking the same way though. If everyone catches on and moves here eventually we really will be the next silicon valley; to that I say, "No thanks."
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Interesting. Do you happen to know roughly how many software engineer-hiring companies are within a commutable radius from your home?
- cableshaft 10y ago
  I live in Chicago and it can be a bit tough finding the next gig here. Lots of people are hiring, but no one ever seems to be in a big hurry. I had one recruiter touching base with me for over two months as one startup took their time to schedule a second phone interview with me (I was still in contention, they just have a dirt slow process. The recruiter had complained to them about it before). By the time they were ready, I had finally found something new, but that was after four months (they contacted me when I was 2 months unemployed). I've also had people submit changes in their requirements to recruiters before a phone interview so I was no longer had enough years of experience for them (and I have quite a few), contact me about setting up an interview and then never end up emailing me to confirm a final time, all sorts of stupid stuff that's happened. I'm at a new company now (in the Chicago area) and even though we've lost four people and we're 'desperate for new developers' according to the boss, we haven't had a new hire in at least six months. I doubt this kind of crap happens with companies at SV, because they wouldn't be able to hire anyone because other companies would snatch them up too quick.