4 ms·

Fine, but then shouldn't Ireland pay the European Commission a fine or something? It seems unreasonable to make Apple retroactively pay.

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago
You can't benefit from someone else doing something illegal and keep your benefits. One of the principles of Western law.
- maratd 10y ago
  Here are a few more principles of Western Law for you. Statute of Limitations. Ex Post Facto. If this tax activity was illegal, why wasn't it stopped 25 years ago, when it started?
  - _Codemonkeyism 10y ago
    "Ex Post Facto" It was illegal all the way, only Apple wants to make it legal. "why wasn't it stopped 25 years ago, when it started?" If murdering is illegal, why wasn't it stopped 5000 years ago? Don't know. People do illegal things all the time, most people doing illegal things do not get prosecuted for various reasons, fashion, society, not enough prosecutors. The argument "I was not prosecuted some years, so it was not illegal" doesn't work with any court. "Statutes of limitations" I don't know the time frames and for what time frame Apple needs to pay fines. Could you share the time frames where you think Apple got illegally fined? I'm no expert in tax law but would assume, here in Germany, there is no "Statutes of limitations" for taxes. Countries lose all their humor when it's about taxes.
    - maratd 10y ago
      > The argument "I was not prosecuted some years, so it was not illegal" doesn't work with any court. That's exactly how it works. Look up statute of limitations. Most civil violations have stringent limits. > I'm no expert in tax law but would assume, here in Germany, there is no "Statutes of limitations" for taxes. Countries lose all their humor when it's about taxes. I didn't know German law applied in Ireland. Perhaps that's the entire point of the EU, I don't know. Anyway, Ireland explicitly says that nothing is owed. Maybe you should read a bit more about this issue before commenting?
anexprogrammer 10y ago
Apple innocently, and unknowingly, buy a stolen and ringed car. A chance check reveals the car to be stolen - Apple lose the car regardless of them believing it legitimate. Apple innocently, and unknowingly[1], accept an illegal tax benefit. Apple lose the benefit of the illegal activity. What's the difference? Caveat Emptor for both. Even if you want to consider them the innocent victim they don't get to keep the benefit of a crime. [1] I'm less convinced it's unknowing here - Apple probably have a surfeit of international taxation experts and lawyers.
- gambiting 10y ago
  In the first case you mentioned, you can absolutely sue the person who sold you a stolen car for your money back. In this case doesn't it follow that Apple could sue Ireland?
  - tribaal 10y ago
    In my humble EU citizen's opinion, they certainly should be allowed to. Once they pay their 14B in taxes.
- CPLX 10y ago
  > innocently, and unknowingly lol
  - sjwright 10y ago
    How was Apple supposed to know that Ireland's tax legislation was going to be retrospectively upturned by the EU? Should Tesla be worried that the United States Federal Government might deem Nevada's special tax deal invalid?
    - tobltobs 10y ago
      Maybe they should have asked the EU? If a deal looks to be good to be true it might not be true. If you buy a stolen car from some shaddy guy for much less then it is actual worth it is also your fault.

_Codemonkeyism 10y ago

You can't benefit from someone else doing something illegal and keep your benefits. One of the principles of Western law.

maratd 10y ago
Here are a few more principles of Western Law for you. Statute of Limitations. Ex Post Facto. If this tax activity was illegal, why wasn't it stopped 25 years ago, when it started?
- _Codemonkeyism 10y ago
  "Ex Post Facto" It was illegal all the way, only Apple wants to make it legal. "why wasn't it stopped 25 years ago, when it started?" If murdering is illegal, why wasn't it stopped 5000 years ago? Don't know. People do illegal things all the time, most people doing illegal things do not get prosecuted for various reasons, fashion, society, not enough prosecutors. The argument "I was not prosecuted some years, so it was not illegal" doesn't work with any court. "Statutes of limitations" I don't know the time frames and for what time frame Apple needs to pay fines. Could you share the time frames where you think Apple got illegally fined? I'm no expert in tax law but would assume, here in Germany, there is no "Statutes of limitations" for taxes. Countries lose all their humor when it's about taxes.
  - maratd 10y ago
    > The argument "I was not prosecuted some years, so it was not illegal" doesn't work with any court. That's exactly how it works. Look up statute of limitations. Most civil violations have stringent limits. > I'm no expert in tax law but would assume, here in Germany, there is no "Statutes of limitations" for taxes. Countries lose all their humor when it's about taxes. I didn't know German law applied in Ireland. Perhaps that's the entire point of the EU, I don't know. Anyway, Ireland explicitly says that nothing is owed. Maybe you should read a bit more about this issue before commenting?

anexprogrammer 10y ago

Apple innocently, and unknowingly, buy a stolen and ringed car. A chance check reveals the car to be stolen - Apple lose the car regardless of them believing it legitimate. Apple innocently, and unknowingly[1], accept an illegal tax benefit. Apple lose the benefit of the illegal activity. What's the difference? Caveat Emptor for both. Even if you want to consider them the innocent victim they don't get to keep the benefit of a crime. [1] I'm less convinced it's unknowing here - Apple probably have a surfeit of international taxation experts and lawyers.

gambiting 10y ago
In the first case you mentioned, you can absolutely sue the person who sold you a stolen car for your money back. In this case doesn't it follow that Apple could sue Ireland?
- tribaal 10y ago
  In my humble EU citizen's opinion, they certainly should be allowed to. Once they pay their 14B in taxes.
CPLX 10y ago
> innocently, and unknowingly lol
- sjwright 10y ago
  How was Apple supposed to know that Ireland's tax legislation was going to be retrospectively upturned by the EU? Should Tesla be worried that the United States Federal Government might deem Nevada's special tax deal invalid?
  - tobltobs 10y ago
    Maybe they should have asked the EU? If a deal looks to be good to be true it might not be true. If you buy a stolen car from some shaddy guy for much less then it is actual worth it is also your fault.