4 ms·

"A company’s profits should be taxed in the country where the value is created." "In Apple’s case, nearly all of our research and development takes place in Ca

"A company’s profits should be taxed in the country where the value is created." "In Apple’s case, nearly all of our research and development takes place in California, so the vast majority of our profits are taxed in the United States." And yet the value creation seems to be happening mostly in tax havens... and NOT in the US. Nice try, Timmy. Be a sport and put your money where your mouth is, and repatriate all that foreign stash cash to the US, and I am happy to side with you. Yet somehow, I believe this won't be on the menu anytime soon...

celticninja 10y ago
The EU have even said the bill could be reduced if further US taxes are paid.
andy_ppp 10y ago
They won't do it until Hillary gets in and reduces the rate of repatriations which Apple has been lobbying for for a long time...
- josho 10y ago
  I've read this theme several times. What has she done to lead you to make this conclusion? Or is this no more than your own bias and fear?
  - the-dude 10y ago
    Temporary 'tax holidays' have happened before. Sorry, no links atm.
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    Yeah, I read it. Which is how I know about it. It's not at all an unreasonable suggestion. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/14/tim-cook-addresses-apples-us-taxes-says-no-repatriation-without-fair-rate.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/14/tim-cook-addresses-apples-us-... "Cook added that it was up to Congress and the president to enact tax reform, which he is "optimistic" will take place sometime next year." I am actually both scared and biased, you got me!
    - josho 10y ago
      It's entirely reasonable to assume that with this much money at stake Apple will pull all the stops for a tax holiday. What I was wondering was if any politician had spoken publicly on this issue. It seems, unsurprisingly, they haven't.
garrettheaver 10y ago
Which tax haven(s) are you referring to there?
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  I'm guessing the one where Apple had an effective tax rate of 0.005%
  - twoodfin 10y ago
    What are the numerator and denominator of that figure?
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    That would be Ireland where Apple paid taxes at an effective rate of 0.005%, just to be explicit.
    - garrettheaver 10y ago
      So trying to classify Ireland a tax haven isn't correct. It might be popular amongst certain political classes and media in the US to do so but it doesn't stack up. Ireland has a flat corporation tax rate of 12.5%. Many other EU countries have rates which can, and often do, end up even lower. Look at France for example where the tax rate drops down to an effective 8% for many of the CAC40 companies (according to the OECD). The 0.005% rate is NOT the corporate tax rate Ireland charged Apple, its the rate Apple managed wrangle on all their European wide profits by arranging their corporate structures to take advantage of various loopholes in several countries, not just in Ireland. This was perfectly legal under Irish, EU and importantly, US law at the time. Now the EU wants to effectively rewrite history and even the US agrees with Irelands position on this.
themihai 10y ago
Tim would pay tax in the US only if it gets a sweetheart deal of 0.0005%
pjc50 10y ago
> the vast majority of our profits are taxed in the United States. That's not even true! As you say, they keep their profits offshore to avoid US taxes: http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-taxes-offshore-ireland-european-commission-2016-8 http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-taxes-offshore-ireland-e...
- sjwright 10y ago
  > That's not even true! That's a graph of cash reserves, not revenues. It's highly likely that Apple spends most of the revenue it accrues in the Unites States. You know, on expensive shit like Apple Campus 2.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    The slope of the graph is effectively a lower bound on profit-not-returned-to-shareholders. Spending it would make it no longer count as profit. $200bn buys you a lot of HQ buildings. It would probably buy you all the HQ buildings in SF.

celticninja 10y ago

The EU have even said the bill could be reduced if further US taxes are paid.

andy_ppp 10y ago

They won't do it until Hillary gets in and reduces the rate of repatriations which Apple has been lobbying for for a long time...

josho 10y ago
I've read this theme several times. What has she done to lead you to make this conclusion? Or is this no more than your own bias and fear?
- the-dude 10y ago
  Temporary 'tax holidays' have happened before. Sorry, no links atm.
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  Yeah, I read it. Which is how I know about it. It's not at all an unreasonable suggestion. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/14/tim-cook-addresses-apples-us-taxes-says-no-repatriation-without-fair-rate.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/14/tim-cook-addresses-apples-us-... "Cook added that it was up to Congress and the president to enact tax reform, which he is "optimistic" will take place sometime next year." I am actually both scared and biased, you got me!
  - josho 10y ago
    It's entirely reasonable to assume that with this much money at stake Apple will pull all the stops for a tax holiday. What I was wondering was if any politician had spoken publicly on this issue. It seems, unsurprisingly, they haven't.

garrettheaver 10y ago

Which tax haven(s) are you referring to there?

madeofpalk 10y ago
I'm guessing the one where Apple had an effective tax rate of 0.005%
- twoodfin 10y ago
  What are the numerator and denominator of that figure?
- wavefunction 10y ago
  That would be Ireland where Apple paid taxes at an effective rate of 0.005%, just to be explicit.
  - garrettheaver 10y ago
    So trying to classify Ireland a tax haven isn't correct. It might be popular amongst certain political classes and media in the US to do so but it doesn't stack up. Ireland has a flat corporation tax rate of 12.5%. Many other EU countries have rates which can, and often do, end up even lower. Look at France for example where the tax rate drops down to an effective 8% for many of the CAC40 companies (according to the OECD). The 0.005% rate is NOT the corporate tax rate Ireland charged Apple, its the rate Apple managed wrangle on all their European wide profits by arranging their corporate structures to take advantage of various loopholes in several countries, not just in Ireland. This was perfectly legal under Irish, EU and importantly, US law at the time. Now the EU wants to effectively rewrite history and even the US agrees with Irelands position on this.

themihai 10y ago

Tim would pay tax in the US only if it gets a sweetheart deal of 0.0005%

pjc50 10y ago

> the vast majority of our profits are taxed in the United States. That's not even true! As you say, they keep their profits offshore to avoid US taxes: http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-taxes-offshore-ireland-european-commission-2016-8 http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-taxes-offshore-ireland-e...

sjwright 10y ago
> That's not even true! That's a graph of cash reserves, not revenues. It's highly likely that Apple spends most of the revenue it accrues in the Unites States. You know, on expensive shit like Apple Campus 2.
- pjc50 10y ago
  The slope of the graph is effectively a lower bound on profit-not-returned-to-shareholders. Spending it would make it no longer count as profit. $200bn buys you a lot of HQ buildings. It would probably buy you all the HQ buildings in SF.