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> I wonder how much Irelands payroll taxes would have been were the corporations not to have set up shop in Ireland, they would have just gone somewhere with a

> I wonder how much Irelands payroll taxes would have been were the corporations not to have set up shop in Ireland, they would have just gone somewhere with a decent tax arrangement. A better question is where the world would be if nation states wouldn't allow multinational companies to pay only negligible taxes by taking part in a race to the bottom. With tax deals like this one you're just ripping other countries off.

Radim 10y ago
Even better question is, where the world would be if evolution wouldn't allow individual organisms to optimize their fitness by taking part in a race to the bottom? That constant pressure to do more with less... deadly. With "beneficial" (sic) mutations like this one you're just ripping other organisms off.
- legulere 10y ago
  The race to the bottom doesn't optimize fitness though. It relies on being globally unsustainable and just works by parasitically draining all business from the rest of the world. Ireland isn't somehow magically fitter than other countries and thus able to offer 0.005% corporate tax. It's only relying on attracting an above-normal amount of companies by having low taxes and draining other countries of their tax benefits in the same turn. It wouldn't work if everybody was doing it. In fact countries would just turn to shit.
  - Radim 10y ago
    I fail to see where the analogy breaks, from your description. It seems to fit like a glove, with ruthless disregard for any kind of sustainability, draining parasitic/symbiotic relationships and all.
refurb 10y ago
by taking part in a race to the bottom You mean countries competing for business? Why is that bad? It would sound ridiculous if you applied it to companies "Car companies offering lower and lower prices is just a race to the bottom! If this keeps up we'll have no car companies as they'll all be bankrupt!".
- legulere 10y ago
  Countries are not companies. Also your comparison is pretty bad. The direct cost per unit is pretty high for a car in a car company, the one for a company in a country is negligible. So it's more like a publisher selling digital goods, except that there's no copyright, preventing the others from selling exactly the same for a lower price.
  - refurb 10y ago
    Countries provide a service (infrastructure, social programs, court system) based on a price (taxes). There is a floor for those costs. There is a minimal amount of tax required to provide those services. I think it's a bad idea to tell a country that they can't charge a lower price (taxes) in order to sell more business (have companies move there).
    - legulere 10y ago
      > There is a minimal amount of tax required to provide those services. And you can go lower than that amount if you attract an abnormal amount of companies through an abnormally low tax.
      - refurb 10y ago
        You could have a lower tax rate and make it up with volume, but you can't go below a certain tax revenue and still keep a level of infrastructure or social programs. Overall I'm happy that gov'ts have to compete for companies. It's a great way to force them to be more efficient. If they never have to worry about their spending, why would they ever control it?
        legulere 10y ago
        If this is about efficiency can you explain me then how Ireland is more than 1000 times more efficient than other countries (0.005% effective tax rate in Ireland for Apple, pretty much everywhere you pay more than 5% in corporate taxes)?

Radim 10y ago

Even better question is, where the world would be if evolution wouldn't allow individual organisms to optimize their fitness by taking part in a race to the bottom? That constant pressure to do more with less... deadly. With "beneficial" (sic) mutations like this one you're just ripping other organisms off.

legulere 10y ago
The race to the bottom doesn't optimize fitness though. It relies on being globally unsustainable and just works by parasitically draining all business from the rest of the world. Ireland isn't somehow magically fitter than other countries and thus able to offer 0.005% corporate tax. It's only relying on attracting an above-normal amount of companies by having low taxes and draining other countries of their tax benefits in the same turn. It wouldn't work if everybody was doing it. In fact countries would just turn to shit.
- Radim 10y ago
  I fail to see where the analogy breaks, from your description. It seems to fit like a glove, with ruthless disregard for any kind of sustainability, draining parasitic/symbiotic relationships and all.

refurb 10y ago

by taking part in a race to the bottom You mean countries competing for business? Why is that bad? It would sound ridiculous if you applied it to companies "Car companies offering lower and lower prices is just a race to the bottom! If this keeps up we'll have no car companies as they'll all be bankrupt!".

legulere 10y ago
Countries are not companies. Also your comparison is pretty bad. The direct cost per unit is pretty high for a car in a car company, the one for a company in a country is negligible. So it's more like a publisher selling digital goods, except that there's no copyright, preventing the others from selling exactly the same for a lower price.
- refurb 10y ago
  Countries provide a service (infrastructure, social programs, court system) based on a price (taxes). There is a floor for those costs. There is a minimal amount of tax required to provide those services. I think it's a bad idea to tell a country that they can't charge a lower price (taxes) in order to sell more business (have companies move there).
  - legulere 10y ago
    > There is a minimal amount of tax required to provide those services. And you can go lower than that amount if you attract an abnormal amount of companies through an abnormally low tax.
    - refurb 10y ago
      You could have a lower tax rate and make it up with volume, but you can't go below a certain tax revenue and still keep a level of infrastructure or social programs. Overall I'm happy that gov'ts have to compete for companies. It's a great way to force them to be more efficient. If they never have to worry about their spending, why would they ever control it?
      - legulere 10y ago
        If this is about efficiency can you explain me then how Ireland is more than 1000 times more efficient than other countries (0.005% effective tax rate in Ireland for Apple, pretty much everywhere you pay more than 5% in corporate taxes)?