4 ms·

Well the problem is that the EU has a legal structure and if you want to do business in IE then you have to abide by EU's rules. So it is AAPL's lawyers' fault

Well the problem is that the EU has a legal structure and if you want to do business in IE then you have to abide by EU's rules. So it is AAPL's lawyers' fault, in the end. Hence, AAPL's. This is another issue why I am strongly against the EU. You can find out that a country is behaving illegally when WRITING ITS OWN LAWS... So you cannot even be sure to be abiding by the law if you obey a country's laws.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
> This is another issue why I am strongly against the EU. You can find out that a country is behaving illegally when WRITING ITS OWN LAWS... That's true whenever you have international treaties. The WTO has plenty of clauses that go very close to disallowing this type of stuff in slightly different contexts. Same applies to the states within the US. They are bound by federal law in many ways.
ch4ck 10y ago
This is false. EU rules have to be transposed into members states' national law to be binding. http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/transposition/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_b...
- germanier 10y ago
  1) This rule is part of the treaty in which Ireland joined the EU - which was the very first thing added to Irish law. 2) That treaty (which is part of Irish law) allows for certain kind of EU laws (called "regulations") to be directly binding without the Irish lawmakers needing to do something actively. Your link covers another kind of EU laws (called "directives") which in fact have to be transposed before becoming directly enforcecable. However that treaty (which, remember, is part of Irish law) forces the Irish lawmakers to actually transpose them. If they fail they open the country up for litigiation which makes directives indirectly binding.
barking 10y ago
What is in the interest of the German economy seems to be what determines EU and ECB actions, whether it's setting interest rates, applying rules or deciding what 'deals' to investigate. The EU, did it go hard after VW? But when it comes to the small fry, rules is rules.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  The US, which went hard after VW, is not particularly known for going hard after the environmental footprint of it's domestic brands. Yes, VW cheated, but exposing VW as the sole bad guy considering US gas prices and mileages is quite an impressive trick to pull off.
  - barking 10y ago
    I don't understand the moral equivalency that you are implying there exists between US gas prices etc and VW providing fabricated statistics. My point is that the EU and Germany failed to uncover this. Also Germany and France have both in the past chosen to ignore the rules of the EU/Euro club without sanction. That it is far easier for the EU regulators to pick on one of the small fry countries and make negative findings is my argument.
    - allendoerfer 10y ago
      VW cheated, but the bigger moral problem and the underlying topic is not the cheating but the pollution that was hidden by it. And suggesting that VW is polluting more than US brands is just nuts. Edit: Just wanted to make clear, that of course the cheating should have totally been caught in Europe earlier. The thought that the US is not biased with its domestic brands just made me chuckle.
      - barking 10y ago
        >The thought that the US is not biased with its domestic brands just made me chuckle. Who suggested that, or for that matter who suggested that "VW is polluting more than US brands"? I know I didn't.
themartorana 10y ago
Yeah, which is why I'm so surprised people are surprised about Brexit. It wasn't some full-on racist rant. Many people just wanted sovereignty for real, including a large number of Labor voters who voted quietly, fearing retaliation. When you can't write your own laws, and you don't get to elect who does, you're not really sovereign. http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-leave-democracy-immigration-david-cameron-476732 http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-leave-democracy-immigratio...
threeseed 10y ago
Did I say Apple didn't share the blame with Ireland ? I just fully disagree with using the term fraud to describe what happened.
icebraining 10y ago
You can find out that a country is behaving illegally when WRITING ITS OWN LAWS... So you cannot even be sure to be abiding by the law if you obey a country's laws. That can happen in every country which has a constitution.
- legulere 10y ago
  And every federal country where you have different bodies that set law.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago

> This is another issue why I am strongly against the EU. You can find out that a country is behaving illegally when WRITING ITS OWN LAWS... That's true whenever you have international treaties. The WTO has plenty of clauses that go very close to disallowing this type of stuff in slightly different contexts. Same applies to the states within the US. They are bound by federal law in many ways.

ch4ck 10y ago

This is false. EU rules have to be transposed into members states' national law to be binding. http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/transposition/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_b...

germanier 10y ago
1) This rule is part of the treaty in which Ireland joined the EU - which was the very first thing added to Irish law. 2) That treaty (which is part of Irish law) allows for certain kind of EU laws (called "regulations") to be directly binding without the Irish lawmakers needing to do something actively. Your link covers another kind of EU laws (called "directives") which in fact have to be transposed before becoming directly enforcecable. However that treaty (which, remember, is part of Irish law) forces the Irish lawmakers to actually transpose them. If they fail they open the country up for litigiation which makes directives indirectly binding.

barking 10y ago

What is in the interest of the German economy seems to be what determines EU and ECB actions, whether it's setting interest rates, applying rules or deciding what 'deals' to investigate. The EU, did it go hard after VW? But when it comes to the small fry, rules is rules.

allendoerfer 10y ago
The US, which went hard after VW, is not particularly known for going hard after the environmental footprint of it's domestic brands. Yes, VW cheated, but exposing VW as the sole bad guy considering US gas prices and mileages is quite an impressive trick to pull off.
- barking 10y ago
  I don't understand the moral equivalency that you are implying there exists between US gas prices etc and VW providing fabricated statistics. My point is that the EU and Germany failed to uncover this. Also Germany and France have both in the past chosen to ignore the rules of the EU/Euro club without sanction. That it is far easier for the EU regulators to pick on one of the small fry countries and make negative findings is my argument.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    VW cheated, but the bigger moral problem and the underlying topic is not the cheating but the pollution that was hidden by it. And suggesting that VW is polluting more than US brands is just nuts. Edit: Just wanted to make clear, that of course the cheating should have totally been caught in Europe earlier. The thought that the US is not biased with its domestic brands just made me chuckle.
    - barking 10y ago
      >The thought that the US is not biased with its domestic brands just made me chuckle. Who suggested that, or for that matter who suggested that "VW is polluting more than US brands"? I know I didn't.

themartorana 10y ago

Yeah, which is why I'm so surprised people are surprised about Brexit. It wasn't some full-on racist rant. Many people just wanted sovereignty for real, including a large number of Labor voters who voted quietly, fearing retaliation. When you can't write your own laws, and you don't get to elect who does, you're not really sovereign. http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-leave-democracy-immigration-david-cameron-476732 http://www.newsweek.com/brexit-eu-leave-democracy-immigratio...

threeseed 10y ago

Did I say Apple didn't share the blame with Ireland ? I just fully disagree with using the term fraud to describe what happened.

icebraining 10y ago

You can find out that a country is behaving illegally when WRITING ITS OWN LAWS... So you cannot even be sure to be abiding by the law if you obey a country's laws. That can happen in every country which has a constitution.

legulere 10y ago
And every federal country where you have different bodies that set law.