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TLDR#1: The investigation still didn't reveal exactly how this happened. TLDR#2: The recommendation to "prevent" these issues on the individuals side is, "Lisa

TLDR#1: The investigation still didn't reveal exactly how this happened. TLDR#2: The recommendation to "prevent" these issues on the individuals side is, "Lisa’s medical community has started recommending that patients concerned about privacy not log into Facebook or other social media accounts at medical offices, or even leave their phones in their cars during appointments. " This is about as practical as recommending people just figure out how to fly and occasionally levitate into the upper atmosphere to go out of the cell tower's range, move a few kilometers west, and then fly back down to earth to scramble all these tracking algorithms.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
TheCoreh 10y ago
Or just disable location access for the Facebook app.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Which works fine for iPhone owners, and on the 15% of Android devices running Marshmallow, in the relatively rare case where someone knows this can be done and acts upon that knowledge. Everybody else is hosed.
  - jakub_g 10y ago
    You can disable the location access entirely on Android, and enable temporarily only for the short moments when you really need it. Most Androids have a slide-from-top quick menu when you can toggle it with one click. Honestly, Google Maps is the only app on my phone that really needs location access.
    - drcross 10y ago
      Just because you turn it off doesnt mean it's not tracking you. Have a look at google location history, it doesn't use GPS but it can still pinpoint you very closely using cell tower triangulation. Stallman was right, we carry the worlds most advanced tracking device in our pockets.
throwanem 10y ago
Especially since odds are the data being correlated comes from the contact lists in her patients' phones. Even successfully confounding geolocation won't solve that.
- daemin 10y ago
  The other tricky thing is, even a single lapse in forgetting to turn the phone off, or bringing it with you is enough to undo all vigilance ever. I don't see it as feasibly, especially for people that are anxious or distracted by something more important on their mind.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You know, it really says something about our industry that our preeminent modern accomplishment requires everyone to choose, blindly and unaware, among effective social nonexistence, espionage-grade opsec, or the kind of radical transparency that no one but maybe a performance artist would even have contemplated just a few years ago.
    - daemin 10y ago
      Yeah, I know this can get brought out a lot in these circumstances, but remember how everyone thought Richard Stallman / rms was crazy for being so disconnected from the Internet? Somehow that doesn't seem the case anymore.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        Keep in mind, when you consider that, that Stallman is also almost entirely disconnected from the world, as well. Granted, that's by choice, and it seems to suit him. But it casts a great deal of doubt on the value of his perspective, especially his perspective on those people who choose otherwise. It's sort of infuriating, if I'm honest. He has a lot of insight with regard to, for example, the extent to which Facebook abuses people who use it. But the best he can muster by way of response is "Well, don't do that, then, and if you do, then to hell with you." Which is, to say the least, not helpful. Edit: And on further reflection, the insight he does have is hardly unique. The more I consider what I've heard and read him to say, the less I find myself able to see what he actually has to add to the kind of nuanced conversation which needs to take place on this subject. Further edit: So your response, while of value, kind of misses the point I set out to make, in that Stallman's situation falls neatly into the "effective social nonexistence" category. The question I'm asking is larger, and more along the lines of: How the hell did we let our industry become something of which Facebook is the exemplar, and is this really something with which we're okay?
Fuxy 10y ago
So basically don't install Facebook or Whatsapp try to use the Facebook website if you can or better yet don't use Facebook at all on your phone if you value your privacy. It's sad that we are at this stage but it's mostly our fault for being so complacent with companies doing these kinds of things. If people stopped using their service when they did these kinds of things they would change their behaviour really quickly but most people don't know or care that this is happening.
- wtbob 10y ago
  > So basically don't install Facebook or Whatsapp try to use the Facebook website if you can or better yet don't use Facebook at all on your phone if you value your privacy. I've been doing this for years now, and you know what? I don't miss it at all. I use the Facebook website from my computer, and that's A-OK.
  - sverige 10y ago
    I don't use Facebook at all and don't miss it.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Neither do I, but as I've described at tedious length here a couple of times recently, I do miss the social life I had a few years back, and which opting not to sign up for Facebook cost me. It would be really great if the choice not to use Facebook did not often entail serious negative consequences. For one thing, I'd be a lot less annoying on the subject. Unfortunately, that happy state of affairs does not appear to obtain in either case.
      - DavideNL 10y ago
        > I do miss the social life I had a few years back, and which opting not to sign up for Facebook cost me You don't know if it was "opting not to use Facebook" that lead to decline in your social life, because you didn't test whether "being on Facebook" would not have lead to decline in your social life. (I've seen many articles that state exactly the opposite - that people who have less social interactions spent more time on Facebook.)
chiph 10y ago
Or have the office assistant provide a metal tin container to use as a Faraday shield. "Put your phone in the box to prevent it reporting that you're here today."
- pdkl95 10y ago
  That would create very conspicuous network exit/entry points at the office. According to Zoz's DEFCON 22 talk[1] about modern OPSEC, these are specifically targeted by various agencies, so I'm sure Facebook finds entry/exit data points just as interesting. [1] (warning: strong language) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q4Ir2J8P8#t=2291 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q4Ir2J8P8#t=2291
  - MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
    Or, more interesting even. It is clearly someone taking the initiative to take their phone off the network at specific times in a specific place.
SixSigma 10y ago
Don't use the Facebook App, use the website Don't share location via the web browser Still poor substitutes but ....

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

TheCoreh 10y ago

Or just disable location access for the Facebook app.

throwanem 10y ago
Which works fine for iPhone owners, and on the 15% of Android devices running Marshmallow, in the relatively rare case where someone knows this can be done and acts upon that knowledge. Everybody else is hosed.
- jakub_g 10y ago
  You can disable the location access entirely on Android, and enable temporarily only for the short moments when you really need it. Most Androids have a slide-from-top quick menu when you can toggle it with one click. Honestly, Google Maps is the only app on my phone that really needs location access.
  - drcross 10y ago
    Just because you turn it off doesnt mean it's not tracking you. Have a look at google location history, it doesn't use GPS but it can still pinpoint you very closely using cell tower triangulation. Stallman was right, we carry the worlds most advanced tracking device in our pockets.

throwanem 10y ago

Especially since odds are the data being correlated comes from the contact lists in her patients' phones. Even successfully confounding geolocation won't solve that.

daemin 10y ago
The other tricky thing is, even a single lapse in forgetting to turn the phone off, or bringing it with you is enough to undo all vigilance ever. I don't see it as feasibly, especially for people that are anxious or distracted by something more important on their mind.
- throwanem 10y ago
  You know, it really says something about our industry that our preeminent modern accomplishment requires everyone to choose, blindly and unaware, among effective social nonexistence, espionage-grade opsec, or the kind of radical transparency that no one but maybe a performance artist would even have contemplated just a few years ago.
  - daemin 10y ago
    Yeah, I know this can get brought out a lot in these circumstances, but remember how everyone thought Richard Stallman / rms was crazy for being so disconnected from the Internet? Somehow that doesn't seem the case anymore.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Keep in mind, when you consider that, that Stallman is also almost entirely disconnected from the world, as well. Granted, that's by choice, and it seems to suit him. But it casts a great deal of doubt on the value of his perspective, especially his perspective on those people who choose otherwise. It's sort of infuriating, if I'm honest. He has a lot of insight with regard to, for example, the extent to which Facebook abuses people who use it. But the best he can muster by way of response is "Well, don't do that, then, and if you do, then to hell with you." Which is, to say the least, not helpful. Edit: And on further reflection, the insight he does have is hardly unique. The more I consider what I've heard and read him to say, the less I find myself able to see what he actually has to add to the kind of nuanced conversation which needs to take place on this subject. Further edit: So your response, while of value, kind of misses the point I set out to make, in that Stallman's situation falls neatly into the "effective social nonexistence" category. The question I'm asking is larger, and more along the lines of: How the hell did we let our industry become something of which Facebook is the exemplar, and is this really something with which we're okay?

Fuxy 10y ago

So basically don't install Facebook or Whatsapp try to use the Facebook website if you can or better yet don't use Facebook at all on your phone if you value your privacy. It's sad that we are at this stage but it's mostly our fault for being so complacent with companies doing these kinds of things. If people stopped using their service when they did these kinds of things they would change their behaviour really quickly but most people don't know or care that this is happening.

wtbob 10y ago
> So basically don't install Facebook or Whatsapp try to use the Facebook website if you can or better yet don't use Facebook at all on your phone if you value your privacy. I've been doing this for years now, and you know what? I don't miss it at all. I use the Facebook website from my computer, and that's A-OK.
- sverige 10y ago
  I don't use Facebook at all and don't miss it.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Neither do I, but as I've described at tedious length here a couple of times recently, I do miss the social life I had a few years back, and which opting not to sign up for Facebook cost me. It would be really great if the choice not to use Facebook did not often entail serious negative consequences. For one thing, I'd be a lot less annoying on the subject. Unfortunately, that happy state of affairs does not appear to obtain in either case.
    - DavideNL 10y ago
      > I do miss the social life I had a few years back, and which opting not to sign up for Facebook cost me You don't know if it was "opting not to use Facebook" that lead to decline in your social life, because you didn't test whether "being on Facebook" would not have lead to decline in your social life. (I've seen many articles that state exactly the opposite - that people who have less social interactions spent more time on Facebook.)

chiph 10y ago

Or have the office assistant provide a metal tin container to use as a Faraday shield. "Put your phone in the box to prevent it reporting that you're here today."

pdkl95 10y ago
That would create very conspicuous network exit/entry points at the office. According to Zoz's DEFCON 22 talk[1] about modern OPSEC, these are specifically targeted by various agencies, so I'm sure Facebook finds entry/exit data points just as interesting. [1] (warning: strong language) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q4Ir2J8P8#t=2291 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q4Ir2J8P8#t=2291
- MOARDONGZPLZ 10y ago
  Or, more interesting even. It is clearly someone taking the initiative to take their phone off the network at specific times in a specific place.

SixSigma 10y ago

Don't use the Facebook App, use the website Don't share location via the web browser Still poor substitutes but ....