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Your comment is bullshit. Some of the best people I've worked with, both in and out of college, didn't even begin programming until taking their first CS course

Your comment is bullshit. Some of the best people I've worked with, both in and out of college, didn't even begin programming until taking their first CS course in college. No cheating or adderall involved. You aren't doomed or damaged if you haven't programmed before hitting college. Claiming that is slandering a generation of engineers.

pessimizer 10y ago
I'm criticizing a lot of CS programs, not programmers who didn't program before college. There are plenty of good programmers who never attended college for computers at all. My own mother started programming after majoring in English in college, learning in a training program at her job in her mid-20s (because she wanted to move out of a management track.) She went on to a 40 year career, and inspired me to become a programmer. I can see why my comment could be seen as slandering all non-hobbyist programmers rather than programs that don't bother to teach programming because they expect you to already know when you arrive, but you would probably have to skip the second sentence of the first paragraph, and the first parenthetical in item 2). Thanks for the rage, though. Again, I watched people graduate who couldn't fizzbuzz. They got jobs, and they still couldn't fizzbuzz. These were friends, who I liked very much as people, and I'm as happy that they got good jobs as I am sure that anybody who hired them should be fired.
- Blackthorn 10y ago
  > but you would probably have to skip the second sentence of the first paragraph, and the first parenthetical in item 2 No, I think you're just poor at communicating. Your claim was "After the second semester, CS students divide into three groups", and then listed those three groups, zero of which involved a person who was new to programming doing well. You had every opportunity to hedge your statement, and you did not.
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    Because I intentionally excluded that category, under the qualification that I was talking about programs with a vertical learning curve, that also had intros to programming that didn't actually have lectures about programming. You clearly read those words, so the problem is either reading comprehension or being intentionally obtuse.
    - sbov 10y ago
      They're called "weeder" classes, and probably every CS department has them. You take your intro classes then they dump you into algorithms.

pessimizer 10y ago

I'm criticizing a lot of CS programs, not programmers who didn't program before college. There are plenty of good programmers who never attended college for computers at all. My own mother started programming after majoring in English in college, learning in a training program at her job in her mid-20s (because she wanted to move out of a management track.) She went on to a 40 year career, and inspired me to become a programmer. I can see why my comment could be seen as slandering all non-hobbyist programmers rather than programs that don't bother to teach programming because they expect you to already know when you arrive, but you would probably have to skip the second sentence of the first paragraph, and the first parenthetical in item 2). Thanks for the rage, though. Again, I watched people graduate who couldn't fizzbuzz. They got jobs, and they still couldn't fizzbuzz. These were friends, who I liked very much as people, and I'm as happy that they got good jobs as I am sure that anybody who hired them should be fired.

Blackthorn 10y ago
> but you would probably have to skip the second sentence of the first paragraph, and the first parenthetical in item 2 No, I think you're just poor at communicating. Your claim was "After the second semester, CS students divide into three groups", and then listed those three groups, zero of which involved a person who was new to programming doing well. You had every opportunity to hedge your statement, and you did not.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  Because I intentionally excluded that category, under the qualification that I was talking about programs with a vertical learning curve, that also had intros to programming that didn't actually have lectures about programming. You clearly read those words, so the problem is either reading comprehension or being intentionally obtuse.
  - sbov 10y ago
    They're called "weeder" classes, and probably every CS department has them. You take your intro classes then they dump you into algorithms.