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How does an incentive to work accomplish anything if the only jobs that are available (if any for a given person's skillset) are ones that pay far too little to

How does an incentive to work accomplish anything if the only jobs that are available (if any for a given person's skillset) are ones that pay far too little to live on. ("decreasing the cost of labor" == "reduce or eliminate the minimum wage") Most poor people work very hard to earn enough to survive; much harder per $ earned than most people on this website. They don't need an incentive to work, they need jobs that pay better for each hour they work. Raising the minimum wage won't accomplish that by itself, because most companies would reduce the number of positions to keep their costs stable. We could raise the minimum wage and then provide tax credits to businesses to offset the additional labor cost, but that'd wind up complex to administer and there would probably be loopholes that allow companies to take tax credits and keep the cash to themselves instead of paying them through to employees. With Basic Income, we effectively raise the minimum wage by direct payments to the employee; their income per hour worked goes up. This is much simpler to administer: everyone gets the same amount, and it counts as taxable income.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
No. Most people don't work hard. Most poor people don't work at all and are not looking for work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12382336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12382336 They also disproportionately engage in other behaviors that also keep them poor (e.g. drug use, beating their wives, etc). Also, assuming you were right, EITC would immediately solve the problem of "the only jobs that are available...are ones that pay far too little to live on." EITC solves the problem of "I want to live at a western middle class standard of living, but the value of my labor is too low to support that". The only problem it doesn't solve is "I want to sit at home smoking weed and playing video games" (that's what BI solves).
- CPLX 10y ago
  > Most people don't work hard. Doubtless. I've even heard rumors that some miscreants collect healthy software developer salaries but just post on HN all day.
gwright 10y ago
Earned Income Tax Credit A situation in which assistance is given to people who are working (albeit for a lower wage) is a much better situation than assistance being given to people who aren't working at all. There is value in enabling people to have jobs, even low paying jobs. Many workplace laws and regulations effectively increase the cost of labor in the aggregate. So "decreasing the cost of labor" is not all about lowering pay. Think of things like overtime rules, mandatory benefits, onerous compliance rules, shifting various legal burdens to the employer rather than the employee, making it more difficult to fire someone.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  The EIC awards a max of ~$6,200 to people with 3 or more children. How many people with 3 kids do you think are going to stop working if they get an unconditional government benefit of $6,000? I think the EIC does a good job of addressing the need some people have to moralize about the sanctity of labor, I doubt it has much of any impact on the labor market (it mostly just makes the lives of some kids better).

yummyfajitas 10y ago

No. Most people don't work hard. Most poor people don't work at all and are not looking for work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12382336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12382336 They also disproportionately engage in other behaviors that also keep them poor (e.g. drug use, beating their wives, etc). Also, assuming you were right, EITC would immediately solve the problem of "the only jobs that are available...are ones that pay far too little to live on." EITC solves the problem of "I want to live at a western middle class standard of living, but the value of my labor is too low to support that". The only problem it doesn't solve is "I want to sit at home smoking weed and playing video games" (that's what BI solves).

CPLX 10y ago
> Most people don't work hard. Doubtless. I've even heard rumors that some miscreants collect healthy software developer salaries but just post on HN all day.

gwright 10y ago

Earned Income Tax Credit A situation in which assistance is given to people who are working (albeit for a lower wage) is a much better situation than assistance being given to people who aren't working at all. There is value in enabling people to have jobs, even low paying jobs. Many workplace laws and regulations effectively increase the cost of labor in the aggregate. So "decreasing the cost of labor" is not all about lowering pay. Think of things like overtime rules, mandatory benefits, onerous compliance rules, shifting various legal burdens to the employer rather than the employee, making it more difficult to fire someone.

maxerickson 10y ago
The EIC awards a max of ~$6,200 to people with 3 or more children. How many people with 3 kids do you think are going to stop working if they get an unconditional government benefit of $6,000? I think the EIC does a good job of addressing the need some people have to moralize about the sanctity of labor, I doubt it has much of any impact on the labor market (it mostly just makes the lives of some kids better).