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What's the end goal of this? How is this making humans happier? How is this improving quality of life? Competing with AI is an artificial competition. Quality o

by duaneb 10y ago

What's the end goal of this? How is this making humans happier? How is this improving quality of life? Competing with AI is an artificial competition. Quality of life is a) a real problem that isn't going away and b) is directly contrary to AR. Think emails are a problem now? It's not getting any better with inescapable interaction brought on by AR.

AndrewKemendo 10y ago
End goal is to merge with the AGI. AR gets people acclimated with human machine symbiosis as an optimal way to live.
- duaneb 10y ago
  I don't see how constant direct contact with a computer is going to improve anyone's life. Seems deeply psychologically unhealthy.
  - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
    Think about it like decision support. Computers can make consistently better and more rational decisions, especially as they get feedback (reinforcement learning) giving you this data as you go through life should make things easier. It already has in most areas of life, it's just not persistent yet. Think more practical applications, like cost calculations, route planning, meal prep etc... not social networking and gossip.
    - duaneb 10y ago
      This makes sense, but why can't you just do that today with a phone?
  - vorotato 10y ago
    This seems like a conclusion made with absolutely no evidence or reasoning.
    - duaneb 10y ago
      I'm open to other conclusions, but there's absolutely no evidence or reasoning for them, either. I don't see any reason why AR would improve anyone's life. It seems like it's squarely on the road of "notification addiction".
      - vorotato 10y ago
        I don't see any reason it would need to happen through AR. It is neural lace after all. You wouldn't need to see anything, you might just "know" answers once you subvocalize a question.
  - Practicality 10y ago
    We're already doing this by having the internet available 24/7 through multiple devices. Whether or not the internet is healthy is starting to become irrelevant. If you unplug, you currently can't compete in any intellectually challenging job with people who use the internet now (at least, I highly doubt you can, unless you're some kind of super-genius). The advantage of high-speed information availability is simply too great of an advantage. The next stage will be similar to the internet. Sure there may be some disadvantages, and you can validly argue that being unplugged is more healthy. But you can't compete without it.
    - duaneb 10y ago
      > If you unplug, you currently can't compete in any intellectually challenging job with people who use the internet now (at least, I highly doubt you can, unless you're some kind of super-genius). I don't see how responding to emails instantly makes you any more competitive. Successful people unplug all the time. Even Obama plays basketball, sleeps, hits the beach, and enjoys himself. But just like ignoring email isn't really acceptable, neither will be not using AR. You're just ensuring your future slavery to the economy—all the money in the world isn't worth much if you spend your life plugged in.
      - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
        You've created quite a strawman there with the email argument. Read my other response. Bottom line is, it's there to help you make better decisions, including perhaps even not responding to email.
      - orly_bookz 10y ago
        Wouldn't the point be about being "plugged in" while actually working? Nobody says you have to read email during your off-hours but if you're working in, say, IT and you're not taking advantage of google, stackoverflow, hackernews, technology subreddits, etc... well then you're well behind the eight ball. I've seen generic knowledge workers keep up with dedicated programmers simply by virtue of how well they use the internet interface, while the guys/gals that have been coding for 20 years don't even bother to do simple google searches for basic questions about new technologies...
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    Why do you assume it has to be constant? I would assume that, like smartphones, it will be a technology that people use and then put away when they want some peace.
Practicality 10y ago
Increasing general intelligence and thinking skills makes it possible to come up with better solutions. So this is, effectively, working on solving all problems we face simultaneously, by making us better at solving problems. [Edit: This is more in terms of the advantage of neural enhancement through intelligence augmentation. AR may or may not be the most effective way to do this, however]
- goldfeld 10y ago
  How about increasing quality of life to increase general intelligence and thinking skills? But allowing the general population to come up with better solutions to any problem is not a goal of current western democracy.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    How do you define it is better, how do you validate it?
landryraccoon 10y ago
> Competing with AI is an artificial competition. I think that it's a competition with other human beings in the same sense that the nuclear arms race or mechanized warfare are artificial competitions. You can't guarantee that other actors won't create AGI and use them to their own advantage any more than you can stop other nation states from building machine guns or nuclear weapons. The rise of AI is a competition between human beings. AGI has potential applications in a wide variety of economic, scientific and military endeavours, like many other transformative technologies. Unless you have a strategy to ban AI research globally, it's a moot point. Somebody is going to make AGI work, and whoever it is will be calling the shots because they will have the technology.
- kuurin 10y ago
  Well, there is always the nuclear option. Just use an EMP attack. In any case, we're still dealing with scalability. The amount of computation per volume is still such that the odds are against anyone who would make a destabilizing move. Too much hardware volume to conceal anything that isn't already possible. Even in finance, for example, if word got out that someone found a way to flip the markets because of a better algorithm, there would be a response. There won't be any one actor with a "singularity", it will just be a matter of a threshold unto another paradigm, and from then on it will be business as usual within the realm of zero-sum games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY
internaut 10y ago
> What's the end goal of this? The invention of books as an artificial external memory has been very helpful to us. Storing the world's knowledge into them was a kind of Utopian project in retrospect. This would be something like that but better because it wouldn't just be about storing 'raw data' but skills, the training of executive function, aptitude adjustments etc. Of course this means really changing human beings from what they were because I expect you can't change a brain this much without altering personalities. Then again, are you the same person you were before you entered the military, the university? Probably it changed. I think that is one reason people won't like it. People find it difficult to communicate with people they cannot relate to. Without shared experience this new world if it comes would be quite an alienating and lonely one.

by duaneb 10y ago

AndrewKemendo 10y ago

End goal is to merge with the AGI. AR gets people acclimated with human machine symbiosis as an optimal way to live.

duaneb 10y ago
I don't see how constant direct contact with a computer is going to improve anyone's life. Seems deeply psychologically unhealthy.
- AndrewKemendo 10y ago
  Think about it like decision support. Computers can make consistently better and more rational decisions, especially as they get feedback (reinforcement learning) giving you this data as you go through life should make things easier. It already has in most areas of life, it's just not persistent yet. Think more practical applications, like cost calculations, route planning, meal prep etc... not social networking and gossip.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    This makes sense, but why can't you just do that today with a phone?
- vorotato 10y ago
  This seems like a conclusion made with absolutely no evidence or reasoning.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    I'm open to other conclusions, but there's absolutely no evidence or reasoning for them, either. I don't see any reason why AR would improve anyone's life. It seems like it's squarely on the road of "notification addiction".
    - vorotato 10y ago
      I don't see any reason it would need to happen through AR. It is neural lace after all. You wouldn't need to see anything, you might just "know" answers once you subvocalize a question.
- Practicality 10y ago
  We're already doing this by having the internet available 24/7 through multiple devices. Whether or not the internet is healthy is starting to become irrelevant. If you unplug, you currently can't compete in any intellectually challenging job with people who use the internet now (at least, I highly doubt you can, unless you're some kind of super-genius). The advantage of high-speed information availability is simply too great of an advantage. The next stage will be similar to the internet. Sure there may be some disadvantages, and you can validly argue that being unplugged is more healthy. But you can't compete without it.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    > If you unplug, you currently can't compete in any intellectually challenging job with people who use the internet now (at least, I highly doubt you can, unless you're some kind of super-genius). I don't see how responding to emails instantly makes you any more competitive. Successful people unplug all the time. Even Obama plays basketball, sleeps, hits the beach, and enjoys himself. But just like ignoring email isn't really acceptable, neither will be not using AR. You're just ensuring your future slavery to the economy—all the money in the world isn't worth much if you spend your life plugged in.
    - AndrewKemendo 10y ago
      You've created quite a strawman there with the email argument. Read my other response. Bottom line is, it's there to help you make better decisions, including perhaps even not responding to email.
    - orly_bookz 10y ago
      Wouldn't the point be about being "plugged in" while actually working? Nobody says you have to read email during your off-hours but if you're working in, say, IT and you're not taking advantage of google, stackoverflow, hackernews, technology subreddits, etc... well then you're well behind the eight ball. I've seen generic knowledge workers keep up with dedicated programmers simply by virtue of how well they use the internet interface, while the guys/gals that have been coding for 20 years don't even bother to do simple google searches for basic questions about new technologies...
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  Why do you assume it has to be constant? I would assume that, like smartphones, it will be a technology that people use and then put away when they want some peace.

Practicality 10y ago

Increasing general intelligence and thinking skills makes it possible to come up with better solutions. So this is, effectively, working on solving all problems we face simultaneously, by making us better at solving problems. [Edit: This is more in terms of the advantage of neural enhancement through intelligence augmentation. AR may or may not be the most effective way to do this, however]

goldfeld 10y ago
How about increasing quality of life to increase general intelligence and thinking skills? But allowing the general population to come up with better solutions to any problem is not a goal of current western democracy.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  How do you define it is better, how do you validate it?

landryraccoon 10y ago

> Competing with AI is an artificial competition. I think that it's a competition with other human beings in the same sense that the nuclear arms race or mechanized warfare are artificial competitions. You can't guarantee that other actors won't create AGI and use them to their own advantage any more than you can stop other nation states from building machine guns or nuclear weapons. The rise of AI is a competition between human beings. AGI has potential applications in a wide variety of economic, scientific and military endeavours, like many other transformative technologies. Unless you have a strategy to ban AI research globally, it's a moot point. Somebody is going to make AGI work, and whoever it is will be calling the shots because they will have the technology.

kuurin 10y ago
Well, there is always the nuclear option. Just use an EMP attack. In any case, we're still dealing with scalability. The amount of computation per volume is still such that the odds are against anyone who would make a destabilizing move. Too much hardware volume to conceal anything that isn't already possible. Even in finance, for example, if word got out that someone found a way to flip the markets because of a better algorithm, there would be a response. There won't be any one actor with a "singularity", it will just be a matter of a threshold unto another paradigm, and from then on it will be business as usual within the realm of zero-sum games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY

internaut 10y ago

> What's the end goal of this? The invention of books as an artificial external memory has been very helpful to us. Storing the world's knowledge into them was a kind of Utopian project in retrospect. This would be something like that but better because it wouldn't just be about storing 'raw data' but skills, the training of executive function, aptitude adjustments etc. Of course this means really changing human beings from what they were because I expect you can't change a brain this much without altering personalities. Then again, are you the same person you were before you entered the military, the university? Probably it changed. I think that is one reason people won't like it. People find it difficult to communicate with people they cannot relate to. Without shared experience this new world if it comes would be quite an alienating and lonely one.