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Actually, from a city pollution point of view, cars registered in Flagstaff do not even have to pass smog. Flagstaff does not suffer from pollution like much la

by eddieh 10y ago

Actually, from a city pollution point of view, cars registered in Flagstaff do not even have to pass smog. Flagstaff does not suffer from pollution like much larger metropolitan areas. The local environment is completely beside the point anyway. We're not replacing coal power stations. It isn't an "upgrade" away. Our energy demand is increasing so any new stations supplement rather than replace existing power stations. The stakeholder wouldn't shutdown a power station before its lifetime anyway. They need to recoup their investment. The current operational units at the station will not be shutdown until 2025 and they'll probably add more to extend the lifetime of the station. And furthermore, if the plant was to be supplemented with solar, where do you think the energy will come from at night when the car is plugged in?

ceejayoz 10y ago
> And furthermore, if the plant was to be supplemented with solar, where do you think the energy will come from at night when the car is plugged in? Eventually, stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage
taysix 10y ago
Why do you think Tesla is getting in the battery business as well? Energy storage will become extremely important as we move away from fossil fuel energies.
aianus 10y ago
> We're not replacing coal power stations. It isn't an "upgrade" away. Our energy demand is increasing so any new stations supplement rather than replace existing power stations. Ontario, Canada (where I live) shut down its last coal plant in 2014 and our nighttime electricity costs US$0.0669 per kWh. We did it by not being irrational wimps about Nuclear. http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/en/ontarios-electricity-system/clean-energy-in-ontario/ http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/en/ontarios-electricity-system/c... https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelect...
jonknee 10y ago
> We're not replacing coal power stations. It isn't an "upgrade" away. Our energy demand is increasing so any new stations supplement rather than replace existing power stations. That's simply wrong. Cheap natural gas has been choking off coal all over the country. Plants have been closing as a result and every year since we have generated less electricity from coal than the year prior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_State... > In the first quarter of 2012, the use of coal for electricity generation declined substantially more, 21% from 2011 levels.
- eddieh 10y ago
  That's true, you're right. Overall coal use is declining, but it has be well established that at night when electric cars are charging you're probably getting power from even cheaper coal that could come from several states away, even if you don't happen to have coal plants in your state.

by eddieh 10y ago

ceejayoz 10y ago

> And furthermore, if the plant was to be supplemented with solar, where do you think the energy will come from at night when the car is plugged in? Eventually, stuff like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricit... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage

taysix 10y ago

Why do you think Tesla is getting in the battery business as well? Energy storage will become extremely important as we move away from fossil fuel energies.

aianus 10y ago

> We're not replacing coal power stations. It isn't an "upgrade" away. Our energy demand is increasing so any new stations supplement rather than replace existing power stations. Ontario, Canada (where I live) shut down its last coal plant in 2014 and our nighttime electricity costs US$0.0669 per kWh. We did it by not being irrational wimps about Nuclear. http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/en/ontarios-electricity-system/clean-energy-in-ontario/ http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/en/ontarios-electricity-system/c... https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html https://www.cns-snc.ca/media/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelect...

jonknee 10y ago

> We're not replacing coal power stations. It isn't an "upgrade" away. Our energy demand is increasing so any new stations supplement rather than replace existing power stations. That's simply wrong. Cheap natural gas has been choking off coal all over the country. Plants have been closing as a result and every year since we have generated less electricity from coal than the year prior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_State... > In the first quarter of 2012, the use of coal for electricity generation declined substantially more, 21% from 2011 levels.

eddieh 10y ago
That's true, you're right. Overall coal use is declining, but it has be well established that at night when electric cars are charging you're probably getting power from even cheaper coal that could come from several states away, even if you don't happen to have coal plants in your state.