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You must be joking, I know an awful lot of americans with laptops. Its not like mortgaging a house! And Im not talking about 'above living expenses'. When I bo

by err4nt 10y ago

You must be joking, I know an awful lot of americans with laptops. Its not like mortgaging a house! And Im not talking about 'above living expenses'. When I bought mine I had no money for the electric bill. I leveraged the laptop purchase into paying that bill and many more after it!

mordocai 10y ago
You weren't as poor as some people I know then. Many of the people I'm talking about already can't pay their utility bills. Some of them don't have electricity because it was shut off. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work for others.
- err4nt 10y ago
  You don't know me or my situation so don't speak like you do. I bargained with collections to give me the time. I paid the electric bill with promises of “If you shut it off right now, I cannot earn the money to pay the bill, but if you keep the lights on I can work hard and pay in full (soon)”. For months I had negative money in my bank account and a court order against me (collections for a credit card I had been buying groceries on and no longer had). So that means whenever I did make any money, the instant I put the cheque into my account to cash it - it was gone. I still couldn't buy groceries even if you put a cheque for $5000 in my hand at some points. I got by and survived. Dropped 70 pounds from not eating right, but you're right, perhaps I wasn't poor as some folks you know, so therefore my experience hasn't been my experience.
  - mordocai 10y ago
    My point isn't to invalidate your experience, but to invalidate your idea that since you worked hard and made it through everyone else is able to do the exact same thing. Regardless of all the other points brought up, what if they just have a lower than average intellect? That'll stop them in their tracks too. Regardless of anything else, it requires at least an average intelligence to be able to learn things on your own/with marginal help. Pretending that -anyone- can do what you did is a disservice to yourself(because you are marginalizing all the hard work you put in, I read your other comment) as well as people who for whatever reason are just not capable of doing the same thing.
troncheadle 10y ago
Ok, I'm replying to you down the chain a bit because this is a great example of you just not getting it at all. Do you have a college education? Did you go to a good high school? Do you have motivated peers? Growing up, did you have enough food to eat every day and every night? Do you have two loving parents? Or even one? Did you have a roof over your head every night? How many times did you change houses, schools, districts? These and more are the factors out of the individual's hands that can severely negatively impact their ability to grow up and become successful. You didn't 'just have a laptop and a desk.' You had a laptop, a desk, an education, a stable upbringing. MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET THOSE THINGS AND THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY GAP. Again -- MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET THOSE THINGS AND THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY GAP. This comment I am replying to is just the worst kind of ignorance -- no, dude, there are SO many people in this country that can't afford a laptop. And if they could -- do you know how fucking expensive it is to learn to code??? You need one of 3 things -- 1: lots and lots of free time 2: a $50k education 3: an exceptionally great free public education ( I say exceptionally great because <20% of american schools teach coding). I'm not going to be that commenter that just says 'ugh google privilege and you'll get it.' You had privilege in excess, and now you have ignorance in excess. You need empathy and humility. I'm honestly disgusted by your comments. The kids I work with every fucking day don't have half the shit you grew up with and it makes ALL of the difference in their lives.
- err4nt 10y ago
  > Do you have a college education? Yes! I couldn't afford fancy schools so I did community college for 3 years and paid my own tuition. Total cost <$10k and I had government loans for it that I'm still paying off 7 years later… > Did you go to a good high school? I went to an okay high school. It was 1/3 hilbillies from the country, 1/3 rich city folks from a nearby town, and 1/3 lower middle class folks who lived in the country. I was part of the last group. > Do you have motivated peers? HELL NO! We called the place where I grew up the 'death trap' because if you don't get out of there before you're 20 years old, your life amounts to nothing. You have to escape the gravitational pull to become nothing and break free. > Growing up, did you have enough food to eat every day and every night? Yes, we lived a very frugal life and my parents made 2 things their priority: food, and clothes. We didn't have TV, we didn't have a pool, we didn't buy pop (soda), we didn't have cool desserts in our lunches, we didn't have trendy clothes, we went without a lot of stuff my friends on welfare were able to afford because my parents were working hard to provide for us without welfare. Sometimes I wonder if welfare would have afforded us a better lifestyle, but my parents work ethic would not allow them to stop trying. > Do you have two loving parents? Yes, and I think there's more value in that than most want to admit. I believe a lot of the 'economic' problems we see in society are strong evidence of what fatherlessness looks like in a generation or two of people. > Did you have a roof over your head every night? Yes > How many times did you change houses, schools, districts? I changed schools (at my request) due to harassment my Grade 3 teacher, new school was in a different town. > do you know how fucking expensive it is to learn to code??? Sure, it costs $0. I do it every day! That's been my saving grace :D I'm so excited that I was able to do this with such few tools that I am ready, willing, and in a place where I want to HELP others learn code :D I already volunteer my time, money, and labour to help people learn the skills I've picked up, and if I could find a way to turn that into my job I would be thrilled! > You had privilege in excess, and now you have ignorance in excess. You need empathy and humility. I'm honestly disgusted by your comments. The kids I work with every fucking day don't have half the shit you grew up with and it makes ALL of the difference in their lives. You know, this whole time you're attacking me but I'm also the guy going wayyyyyyy outside his own comfort zone to get in front of others and help them learn. I think you've got me pegged wrong. Soo I tell people: “This is what I did, I can show you the ropes and help you figure it out for yourself too!” and for $230, if I saw somebody was serious about learning I wouldn't think twice about affording the tool FOR them. I want to teach others how to build their own earning power and make a living (helping others) - so if it's TRUE that my success is only due to my privilege I may as well quit helping people now right? Why bother investing in others, teaching them, helping them if all that effort is wasted because only privilege bring success. Do you really believe that? I'm going to continue helping others because I sure don't!

by err4nt 10y ago

mordocai 10y ago

You weren't as poor as some people I know then. Many of the people I'm talking about already can't pay their utility bills. Some of them don't have electricity because it was shut off. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will work for others.

err4nt 10y ago
You don't know me or my situation so don't speak like you do. I bargained with collections to give me the time. I paid the electric bill with promises of “If you shut it off right now, I cannot earn the money to pay the bill, but if you keep the lights on I can work hard and pay in full (soon)”. For months I had negative money in my bank account and a court order against me (collections for a credit card I had been buying groceries on and no longer had). So that means whenever I did make any money, the instant I put the cheque into my account to cash it - it was gone. I still couldn't buy groceries even if you put a cheque for $5000 in my hand at some points. I got by and survived. Dropped 70 pounds from not eating right, but you're right, perhaps I wasn't poor as some folks you know, so therefore my experience hasn't been my experience.
- mordocai 10y ago
  My point isn't to invalidate your experience, but to invalidate your idea that since you worked hard and made it through everyone else is able to do the exact same thing. Regardless of all the other points brought up, what if they just have a lower than average intellect? That'll stop them in their tracks too. Regardless of anything else, it requires at least an average intelligence to be able to learn things on your own/with marginal help. Pretending that -anyone- can do what you did is a disservice to yourself(because you are marginalizing all the hard work you put in, I read your other comment) as well as people who for whatever reason are just not capable of doing the same thing.

troncheadle 10y ago

Ok, I'm replying to you down the chain a bit because this is a great example of you just not getting it at all. Do you have a college education? Did you go to a good high school? Do you have motivated peers? Growing up, did you have enough food to eat every day and every night? Do you have two loving parents? Or even one? Did you have a roof over your head every night? How many times did you change houses, schools, districts? These and more are the factors out of the individual's hands that can severely negatively impact their ability to grow up and become successful. You didn't 'just have a laptop and a desk.' You had a laptop, a desk, an education, a stable upbringing. MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET THOSE THINGS AND THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY GAP. Again -- MOST PEOPLE DON'T GET THOSE THINGS AND THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY GAP. This comment I am replying to is just the worst kind of ignorance -- no, dude, there are SO many people in this country that can't afford a laptop. And if they could -- do you know how fucking expensive it is to learn to code??? You need one of 3 things -- 1: lots and lots of free time 2: a $50k education 3: an exceptionally great free public education ( I say exceptionally great because <20% of american schools teach coding). I'm not going to be that commenter that just says 'ugh google privilege and you'll get it.' You had privilege in excess, and now you have ignorance in excess. You need empathy and humility. I'm honestly disgusted by your comments. The kids I work with every fucking day don't have half the shit you grew up with and it makes ALL of the difference in their lives.

err4nt 10y ago
> Do you have a college education? Yes! I couldn't afford fancy schools so I did community college for 3 years and paid my own tuition. Total cost <$10k and I had government loans for it that I'm still paying off 7 years later… > Did you go to a good high school? I went to an okay high school. It was 1/3 hilbillies from the country, 1/3 rich city folks from a nearby town, and 1/3 lower middle class folks who lived in the country. I was part of the last group. > Do you have motivated peers? HELL NO! We called the place where I grew up the 'death trap' because if you don't get out of there before you're 20 years old, your life amounts to nothing. You have to escape the gravitational pull to become nothing and break free. > Growing up, did you have enough food to eat every day and every night? Yes, we lived a very frugal life and my parents made 2 things their priority: food, and clothes. We didn't have TV, we didn't have a pool, we didn't buy pop (soda), we didn't have cool desserts in our lunches, we didn't have trendy clothes, we went without a lot of stuff my friends on welfare were able to afford because my parents were working hard to provide for us without welfare. Sometimes I wonder if welfare would have afforded us a better lifestyle, but my parents work ethic would not allow them to stop trying. > Do you have two loving parents? Yes, and I think there's more value in that than most want to admit. I believe a lot of the 'economic' problems we see in society are strong evidence of what fatherlessness looks like in a generation or two of people. > Did you have a roof over your head every night? Yes > How many times did you change houses, schools, districts? I changed schools (at my request) due to harassment my Grade 3 teacher, new school was in a different town. > do you know how fucking expensive it is to learn to code??? Sure, it costs $0. I do it every day! That's been my saving grace :D I'm so excited that I was able to do this with such few tools that I am ready, willing, and in a place where I want to HELP others learn code :D I already volunteer my time, money, and labour to help people learn the skills I've picked up, and if I could find a way to turn that into my job I would be thrilled! > You had privilege in excess, and now you have ignorance in excess. You need empathy and humility. I'm honestly disgusted by your comments. The kids I work with every fucking day don't have half the shit you grew up with and it makes ALL of the difference in their lives. You know, this whole time you're attacking me but I'm also the guy going wayyyyyyy outside his own comfort zone to get in front of others and help them learn. I think you've got me pegged wrong. Soo I tell people: “This is what I did, I can show you the ropes and help you figure it out for yourself too!” and for $230, if I saw somebody was serious about learning I wouldn't think twice about affording the tool FOR them. I want to teach others how to build their own earning power and make a living (helping others) - so if it's TRUE that my success is only due to my privilege I may as well quit helping people now right? Why bother investing in others, teaching them, helping them if all that effort is wasted because only privilege bring success. Do you really believe that? I'm going to continue helping others because I sure don't!