6 ms·

in embedded systems? If he is talking about using Python in microcontrollers, he does not know what is embedded system.

by kbumsik 10y ago

r_smart 10y ago
That's what I was thinking. Nevermind not having things like bit shifting, python can't even run on most micros, because there's no interpreter for them. Micro-python is a thing that exists, but hasn't expanded yet and is probably a long way off. Honestly, if we're talking about replacing C / C++, it would seem we should be comparing them to Rust or something, not a language whose use model isn't really intended for embedded systems. I love Python, but this just doesn't seem like the place for it. And by embedded, he probably meant Raspberry Pis running Debian or something like that.
- gtaylor 10y ago
  Python does have bit shifting, for what it's worth.
  - r_smart 10y ago
    Hmmmm...I don't remember what I was thinking then. I remember wanting to use something more typically low level, like bit shifting, and it either being way too much hassle or not supported. Either way, thanks for the correction.
    - knicholes 10y ago
      >>> 1 << 4 16
    - chocolatebunny 10y ago
      The big problem I've had with Python and bit shifting has just been dealing with negative numbers. Python doesn't have a concept of unsigned ints, or even just 32bit numbers so I end up having to mask everything by 0xFFFFFFFF. Not really a big deal but maybe that's the issue you were running into?
      - r_smart 10y ago
        That sounds like it might have been the case. I probably got annoyed and just did it a different way. I'm not really sure though. It's one of those things where it happened awhile ago and made an impression on me, but the details have long since faded, leaving only my opinion :)
- stinos 10y ago
  it's written just micropython without the dash and is actually quite close to having all python3 syntax implemented https://github.com/micropython/micropython/ https://github.com/micropython/micropython/
  - r_smart 10y ago
    Thanks for the link. Cool to see that they're making progress getting it going on ARM.
rdtsc 10y ago
Does embedded mean micro-controllers only? I've worked on i7 boxes with 16GB of RAM as "embedded systems". Various customers bought them as such. I guess we've been fooling ourselves and our customers for 10+ years.
- fumplethumb 10y ago
  Not well defined, but to me embedded just means the device is not a PC or a server. Could be a microcontroller running bare-metal code or an RTOS with application code. Could be a device like you describe above which, in some cases, resemble a PC with custom I/O requirements.
  - dom0 10y ago
    There's a whole industry built around embedded Linux. Just FYI.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  I think there's a lot of room in the embedded system space beyond just a microcontroller, but I would not be comfortable calling something that beefy "embedded."
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    It's not the size that makes it embedded. It's that it's something that isn't supposed to be a computer - it's supposed to be a nuclear power plant, or a railroad locomotive, or a microwave oven. Size has nothing to do with it.
- RobertDeNiro 10y ago
  Depends who you're talking to I guess. I wouldn't call that an embedded system, although it could technically be described as such.
- Matthias247 10y ago
  Embedded systems mostly means that the OEM delivers a complete device (hardware and software) where the endcustomer doesn't install anything else. These systems can contain anything from 8bit microcontrollers to i7 processors. But of course, when many people talk about embedded systems (especially in the context of development) they mean the more constrained devices (microcontrollers without OS or with realtime OS, ...). That's because the others are more PC-like and therefore don't have these special requirements during (software) development.

in embedded systems? If he is talking about using Python in microcontrollers, he does not know what is embedded system.

by kbumsik 10y ago

in embedded systems? If he is talking about using Python in microcontrollers, he does not know what is embedded system.

That's what I was thinking. Nevermind not having things like bit shifting, python can't even run on most micros, because there's no interpreter for them. Micro-python is a thing that exists, but hasn't expanded yet and is probably a long way off. Honestly, if we're talking about replacing C / C++, it would seem we should be comparing them to Rust or something, not a language whose use model isn't really intended for embedded systems. I love Python, but this just doesn't seem like the place for it. And by embedded, he probably meant Raspberry Pis running Debian or something like that.

gtaylor 10y ago
Python does have bit shifting, for what it's worth.
- r_smart 10y ago
  Hmmmm...I don't remember what I was thinking then. I remember wanting to use something more typically low level, like bit shifting, and it either being way too much hassle or not supported. Either way, thanks for the correction.
  - knicholes 10y ago
    >>> 1 << 4 16
  - chocolatebunny 10y ago
    The big problem I've had with Python and bit shifting has just been dealing with negative numbers. Python doesn't have a concept of unsigned ints, or even just 32bit numbers so I end up having to mask everything by 0xFFFFFFFF. Not really a big deal but maybe that's the issue you were running into?
    - r_smart 10y ago
      That sounds like it might have been the case. I probably got annoyed and just did it a different way. I'm not really sure though. It's one of those things where it happened awhile ago and made an impression on me, but the details have long since faded, leaving only my opinion :)
stinos 10y ago
it's written just micropython without the dash and is actually quite close to having all python3 syntax implemented https://github.com/micropython/micropython/ https://github.com/micropython/micropython/
- r_smart 10y ago
  Thanks for the link. Cool to see that they're making progress getting it going on ARM.

rdtsc 10y ago

Does embedded mean micro-controllers only? I've worked on i7 boxes with 16GB of RAM as "embedded systems". Various customers bought them as such. I guess we've been fooling ourselves and our customers for 10+ years.

fumplethumb 10y ago
Not well defined, but to me embedded just means the device is not a PC or a server. Could be a microcontroller running bare-metal code or an RTOS with application code. Could be a device like you describe above which, in some cases, resemble a PC with custom I/O requirements.
- dom0 10y ago
  There's a whole industry built around embedded Linux. Just FYI.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
I think there's a lot of room in the embedded system space beyond just a microcontroller, but I would not be comfortable calling something that beefy "embedded."
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  It's not the size that makes it embedded. It's that it's something that isn't supposed to be a computer - it's supposed to be a nuclear power plant, or a railroad locomotive, or a microwave oven. Size has nothing to do with it.
RobertDeNiro 10y ago
Depends who you're talking to I guess. I wouldn't call that an embedded system, although it could technically be described as such.
Matthias247 10y ago
Embedded systems mostly means that the OEM delivers a complete device (hardware and software) where the endcustomer doesn't install anything else. These systems can contain anything from 8bit microcontrollers to i7 processors. But of course, when many people talk about embedded systems (especially in the context of development) they mean the more constrained devices (microcontrollers without OS or with realtime OS, ...). That's because the others are more PC-like and therefore don't have these special requirements during (software) development.