10 ms·

I find it amazing how strong the anti-Russian rumor mongering is in this election. I thought we already had reached the point where 'Terrorism' has replaced 'R

by 1337biz 10y ago

I find it amazing how strong the anti-Russian rumor mongering is in this election. I thought we already had reached the point where 'Terrorism' has replaced 'Russia' as the perpetual enemy figure. Is Trump's soft stand on Russia so scary to some? Apparently attributing anything unattributable to Russia is having a massive comeback right now. If China and others would at least be occasionally mentioned as potential alternative attackers, these reports would look a lot less as some one sided opinion engineering operations.

at-fates-hands 10y ago
This is really due to the increasing tension between the two super powers. Russia has been on the loose, and Obama has done little to challenge them to try and reign them in. I would suspect this is why they get blamed for everything - regardless of the evidence. It's very "cold war era" feeling to me when both sides would blame each other for the smallest thing. Lots of increasing geopolitical drama and it probably won't end anytime soon.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  > Obama has done little to challenge them to try and reign them in. Our sanctions regime crashed their economy (or at minimum, exacerbated their long running problems). It's difficult to say "little to challenge them".
  - saynsedit 10y ago
    I wasn't aware their economy had crashed. Could you provide a source?
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD&view=5Y http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD&view=5Y First the illegal annexation of Crimea was "complicated," and now the Russian economy isn't in a freefall? Where are you getting your news?
      - saynsedit 10y ago
        That's not evidence of a Russian-specific crash. All markets across the globe had a correction in January 2016. According to your chart, Russia has apparently bounced back, just like the rest of the world. This is the DJIA: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EDJI?p=%5EDJI https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EDJI?p=%5EDJI Do you have a more specific source?
        dntrkv 10y ago
        I think his chart is using the wrong date range. Here is a better one: https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?espv=2&q=CURRENCY:RUBUSD&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=269x94&chsc=2&ei=BlvEV_XTBYGUjwPvpqHQBQ https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?espv=2&q=CURRENCY...
        saynsedit 10y ago
        Thanks!
- mark_l_watson 10y ago
  As a US taxpayer, this saber rattling towards Russia makes me unhappy. Russia has 3 foreign military bases. We have something like 600? We have announced plans to spend a trillion dollars on more nuclear weapons, and we are placing a few of them near Russia's borders - as far as I know they are not placing weapons along our borders! Who profits from this? So obvious that I won't even name the usual suspects.
  - linkregister 10y ago
    > We have announced plans to spend a trillion dollars on more nuclear weapons The U.S. spends a trillion dollars on nuclear weapons per 20 years. [1] I agree that disarmament is a credible and the optimum mechanism for reducing risk of the use of nuclear weapons in war and in testing. I think that using hyperbole discredits earnest efforts to this aim. The broadside against secret profiteers ("the usual suspects"?) compounds this. [1] http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/a-diversion-of-public-resources/ http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/a-diversion...
akhilcacharya 10y ago
>I find it amazing how strong the anti-Russian rumor mongering is in this election. Because there's evidence? If there was countervailing evidence that some other organization was at fault, I'm all ears, but there's currently only one probable explanation.
- dmix 10y ago
  There has been quite a few claims of Russian hacks recently that were based on very weak evidence. Additionally, most of the stronger claims came from anonymous gov sources without any public evidence at all. So this is why people are becoming skeptical of the Russian fear mongering. And yes,they are a threat and are hacking public networks just like the NSA, GCHQ, PRC, etc but it seems like the automatic reflex to blame Russia for everything. Which is unscientific and risky - for example, it makes it easy for other adversaries to fool the victims into thinking they are Russian just by using a Russian proxy server to conduct attacks.
drzaiusapelord 10y ago
Because there's evidence. The same way there's evidence of ransomware and other malware industries being propped up by Russia, Russia cheating in the Olympics, Putin murdering journalists and rivals, Putin annexing parts of Ukraine, Putin powering the eastern conflict in Ukraine, Putin purposely bombing US aligned rebels in Syria, etc, etc. All these things were denied by Russia and Russophiles. And that's on top of Russia's incredibly corrupt economic system, where 35% of the wealth in Russia belong to about 100 people. I think a lot of Russophiles are getting the big dose of reality we've been warning about for quite some some. I don't think how its even possible to start giving Russia this benefit of the doubt considering its leadership's recent actions and the evidence we have. If you think Russia doesn't have a non-stop cyberwar with us then I've got a bridge to sell you.
- saynsedit 10y ago
  Ukraine situation is way more complicated than Putin simply annexing it. Lots of history there and lots of US meddling as well as Russia. Additionally, our economic system is far from perfect too. Ever heard of occupy Wall Street? Lots of wealth inequality here. Awareness of the facts does not a Russophile make. Russia is a global superpower and it acts like a superpower, as do other superpowers.
  - varjag 10y ago
    > Ukraine situation is way more complicated than Putin simply annexing it. Look, it's Europe. Everyone here has a history with everyone here. Russian annexation of Ukrainian territory, in violation of every possible treaty and its own constitution, is not a matter of opinion. It's also first in Europe since WW2.
    - saynsedit 10y ago
      Russia isn't the only country that violates international treaties and its own constitution... Ever heard of Victoria Nuland, assistant Secretary of State for European affairs during the Ukrainian crisis? "Fuck the EU" she said: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
JeremyNT 10y ago
Aside from the fact that Russia really does seem to be implicated in this... That you're hearing so much about Russia this year is due to the fact that the Democrats have made it something of a theme of this campaign season [0]. I would suggest that, the Republicans having already "won" terrorism messaging, the Democrats have embraced anti-Russia propaganda so they can have their own bogeyman to fight against. With Trump's documented ties to Russia, the Democrats can "own" attacks on Russia without risk of retaliation. [0] https://theintercept.com/2016/08/08/dems-tactic-of-accusing-adversaries-of-kremlin-ties-and-russia-sympathies-has-long-history-in-us/ https://theintercept.com/2016/08/08/dems-tactic-of-accusing-...
- pessimizer 10y ago
  All "implicated" means is accused. The fact that the Democrats are accusing the Russians creates an implication. What's short is the evidence. Democrats are campaigning to the patriotic right of a populist candidate, and they can't be anti-Muslim because the populist candidate planted his flag in that on nearly the first day as far to the right as you could go short of internment camps. Russians are all that is left, and they're stuck with trying to make Ukraine sound like a terrifying first move towards something.
rorykoehler 10y ago
Perhaps there is evidence as others have suggested (as I am sure there is of US involvement in Russian affairs). In fact it would be surprising if Russia weren't at it. This is after all the age of cyber warfare so it is extremely unlikely that all major powers aren't trying to coerce the system to their advantage. That said it seems that most of the Russian scare tactics are coming out of the Hilary camp as an attempt to deflect from her own shortcomings. Every time something illegal she did comes up the Russian scaremongering gets ramped up a notch. Classic deflection tactics. It is also convenient given that Trump seems to be pro-Putin and many Americans have been conditioned to fear the Russians for decades. America has already lost this election regardless of the outcome.
knz 10y ago
> Apparently attributing anything unattributable to Russia is having a massive comeback right now. Could that be because the US and Russia are currently engaged in a low level proxy conflict in Syria? The "Great Game" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game) of exerting economic and political influence continues...
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
Give me a break. The issue is not only that Trump has taken a "soft stand" on Russia, as you put it. It's that the guy running his campaign (Paul Manafort) has very clear ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine, and Trump himself appears to have financial ties to Russia. Not to mention that everything the guy is saying publicly about Russia is against even the Republican playbook, so it looks like he is aligning closer to Russia over the United States. http://www.politifact.com/global-news/article/2016/may/02/paul-manafort-donald-trumps-top-adviser-and-his-ti/ http://www.politifact.com/global-news/article/2016/may/02/pa... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/politics/donald-trump-soho-settlement.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/politics/donald-trump-s... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=a_inl https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financ... http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/ http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/

by 1337biz 10y ago

at-fates-hands 10y ago

This is really due to the increasing tension between the two super powers. Russia has been on the loose, and Obama has done little to challenge them to try and reign them in. I would suspect this is why they get blamed for everything - regardless of the evidence. It's very "cold war era" feeling to me when both sides would blame each other for the smallest thing. Lots of increasing geopolitical drama and it probably won't end anytime soon.

akhilcacharya 10y ago
> Obama has done little to challenge them to try and reign them in. Our sanctions regime crashed their economy (or at minimum, exacerbated their long running problems). It's difficult to say "little to challenge them".
- saynsedit 10y ago
  I wasn't aware their economy had crashed. Could you provide a source?
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD&view=5Y http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=RUB&to=USD&view=5Y First the illegal annexation of Crimea was "complicated," and now the Russian economy isn't in a freefall? Where are you getting your news?
    - saynsedit 10y ago
      That's not evidence of a Russian-specific crash. All markets across the globe had a correction in January 2016. According to your chart, Russia has apparently bounced back, just like the rest of the world. This is the DJIA: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EDJI?p=%5EDJI https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EDJI?p=%5EDJI Do you have a more specific source?
      - dntrkv 10y ago
        I think his chart is using the wrong date range. Here is a better one: https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?espv=2&q=CURRENCY:RUBUSD&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=269x94&chsc=2&ei=BlvEV_XTBYGUjwPvpqHQBQ https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?espv=2&q=CURRENCY...
        saynsedit 10y ago
        Thanks!
mark_l_watson 10y ago
As a US taxpayer, this saber rattling towards Russia makes me unhappy. Russia has 3 foreign military bases. We have something like 600? We have announced plans to spend a trillion dollars on more nuclear weapons, and we are placing a few of them near Russia's borders - as far as I know they are not placing weapons along our borders! Who profits from this? So obvious that I won't even name the usual suspects.
- linkregister 10y ago
  > We have announced plans to spend a trillion dollars on more nuclear weapons The U.S. spends a trillion dollars on nuclear weapons per 20 years. [1] I agree that disarmament is a credible and the optimum mechanism for reducing risk of the use of nuclear weapons in war and in testing. I think that using hyperbole discredits earnest efforts to this aim. The broadside against secret profiteers ("the usual suspects"?) compounds this. [1] http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/a-diversion-of-public-resources/ http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/catastrophic-harm/a-diversion...

akhilcacharya 10y ago

>I find it amazing how strong the anti-Russian rumor mongering is in this election. Because there's evidence? If there was countervailing evidence that some other organization was at fault, I'm all ears, but there's currently only one probable explanation.

dmix 10y ago
There has been quite a few claims of Russian hacks recently that were based on very weak evidence. Additionally, most of the stronger claims came from anonymous gov sources without any public evidence at all. So this is why people are becoming skeptical of the Russian fear mongering. And yes,they are a threat and are hacking public networks just like the NSA, GCHQ, PRC, etc but it seems like the automatic reflex to blame Russia for everything. Which is unscientific and risky - for example, it makes it easy for other adversaries to fool the victims into thinking they are Russian just by using a Russian proxy server to conduct attacks.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

Because there's evidence. The same way there's evidence of ransomware and other malware industries being propped up by Russia, Russia cheating in the Olympics, Putin murdering journalists and rivals, Putin annexing parts of Ukraine, Putin powering the eastern conflict in Ukraine, Putin purposely bombing US aligned rebels in Syria, etc, etc. All these things were denied by Russia and Russophiles. And that's on top of Russia's incredibly corrupt economic system, where 35% of the wealth in Russia belong to about 100 people. I think a lot of Russophiles are getting the big dose of reality we've been warning about for quite some some. I don't think how its even possible to start giving Russia this benefit of the doubt considering its leadership's recent actions and the evidence we have. If you think Russia doesn't have a non-stop cyberwar with us then I've got a bridge to sell you.

saynsedit 10y ago
Ukraine situation is way more complicated than Putin simply annexing it. Lots of history there and lots of US meddling as well as Russia. Additionally, our economic system is far from perfect too. Ever heard of occupy Wall Street? Lots of wealth inequality here. Awareness of the facts does not a Russophile make. Russia is a global superpower and it acts like a superpower, as do other superpowers.
- varjag 10y ago
  > Ukraine situation is way more complicated than Putin simply annexing it. Look, it's Europe. Everyone here has a history with everyone here. Russian annexation of Ukrainian territory, in violation of every possible treaty and its own constitution, is not a matter of opinion. It's also first in Europe since WW2.
  - saynsedit 10y ago
    Russia isn't the only country that violates international treaties and its own constitution... Ever heard of Victoria Nuland, assistant Secretary of State for European affairs during the Ukrainian crisis? "Fuck the EU" she said: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

JeremyNT 10y ago

Aside from the fact that Russia really does seem to be implicated in this... That you're hearing so much about Russia this year is due to the fact that the Democrats have made it something of a theme of this campaign season [0]. I would suggest that, the Republicans having already "won" terrorism messaging, the Democrats have embraced anti-Russia propaganda so they can have their own bogeyman to fight against. With Trump's documented ties to Russia, the Democrats can "own" attacks on Russia without risk of retaliation. [0] https://theintercept.com/2016/08/08/dems-tactic-of-accusing-adversaries-of-kremlin-ties-and-russia-sympathies-has-long-history-in-us/ https://theintercept.com/2016/08/08/dems-tactic-of-accusing-...

pessimizer 10y ago
All "implicated" means is accused. The fact that the Democrats are accusing the Russians creates an implication. What's short is the evidence. Democrats are campaigning to the patriotic right of a populist candidate, and they can't be anti-Muslim because the populist candidate planted his flag in that on nearly the first day as far to the right as you could go short of internment camps. Russians are all that is left, and they're stuck with trying to make Ukraine sound like a terrifying first move towards something.

rorykoehler 10y ago

Perhaps there is evidence as others have suggested (as I am sure there is of US involvement in Russian affairs). In fact it would be surprising if Russia weren't at it. This is after all the age of cyber warfare so it is extremely unlikely that all major powers aren't trying to coerce the system to their advantage. That said it seems that most of the Russian scare tactics are coming out of the Hilary camp as an attempt to deflect from her own shortcomings. Every time something illegal she did comes up the Russian scaremongering gets ramped up a notch. Classic deflection tactics. It is also convenient given that Trump seems to be pro-Putin and many Americans have been conditioned to fear the Russians for decades. America has already lost this election regardless of the outcome.

knz 10y ago

> Apparently attributing anything unattributable to Russia is having a massive comeback right now. Could that be because the US and Russia are currently engaged in a low level proxy conflict in Syria? The "Great Game" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game) of exerting economic and political influence continues...

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago

Give me a break. The issue is not only that Trump has taken a "soft stand" on Russia, as you put it. It's that the guy running his campaign (Paul Manafort) has very clear ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine, and Trump himself appears to have financial ties to Russia. Not to mention that everything the guy is saying publicly about Russia is against even the Republican playbook, so it looks like he is aligning closer to Russia over the United States. http://www.politifact.com/global-news/article/2016/may/02/paul-manafort-donald-trumps-top-adviser-and-his-ti/ http://www.politifact.com/global-news/article/2016/may/02/pa... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/politics/donald-trump-soho-settlement.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/us/politics/donald-trump-s... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=a_inl https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financ... http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/ http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/