4 ms·

Recruiting is a sales process just like any other. No one would ever say it's unfair to expect a business developer to spend 5 minutes researching a prospect ju

by m52go 10y ago

Recruiting is a sales process just like any other. No one would ever say it's unfair to expect a business developer to spend 5 minutes researching a prospect just because he/she sells for a big firm and doesn't have the time. Come on. This is their JOB.

madeofpalk 10y ago
When they have someone they specifically want to recruit/headhunt, I would expect them to spend at least 5 minutes research.
- valarauca1 10y ago
  Your argument boils down to: Large corporations do not have to sell employment. Potential employees should feel honored to merely be contacted on the basis of an opportunity. This sounds a lot like a cargo cult, or some weird corporatism worship. Frankly if I'm contacted by a recruiter who is a direct employee of a company, and it is blatantly obvious I'm receiving a form letter based on a keyword search of a resume data base. I know exactly what my role will be at this company, an employee ID in a database row.
  - deong 10y ago
    I don't think the argument is that you must feel "honored". Just not personally affronted by it. I work for a company that has open developer positions. None of them are related to keyboard firmware, but if you told me nothing about a potential candidate except that he'd been doing keyboard firmware for fun, my first instinct would be, "great! Let's see if he wants to come in for an interview". Don't we all spout the company line about how specific skills are less important than "passion" or whatever? Well, then don't bitch if someone contacts you about something other than the specific skills on your CV. You don't have prostrate yourself before their glorious presence, but I don't see a reason to get upset about it.
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    No, it doesn't. You're putting an awful lot of words in my mouth there. Generally speaking, they'll be two types of recruiting companies like this are doing: 1) General filling headcount. X department has N open roles for developers who they need suitable people for. It doesn't really matter who the person is, as long as they're suitable (and they'll figure that out with screening calls and interviews). These are the types of roles that these shotgun form emails are sent out to. 2) Headhunting specific people (for specific roles). A company is after someone in particular who they already know about, or they're after a fairly specific type of person (for an IMPORTANT role) so they'll do a bit research on who they want to approach. Of course I don't think anyone should feel honoured to receive a form email. I just don't think it's worth getting your knickers in a twist over it. They irritate me slightly, but I get over it. If I wrote a 1000 word article on every piece of recruiter spam[1] I receive I wouldn't have time to do actual work. [1] Amusing anecdote: One day In the office a whole bunch of phones and computers when off. I assumed it was a whole company email, but nope - it was a recruiter who had emailed everyone looking for MERN developers.
- mark-r 10y ago
  This is where you're wrong, they're not specifically recruiting this individual. They're playing a statistical game - use as many sources as possible to fill the pipeline in hopes that some percentage will make it through to the end. I'm sure the recruiters are incented to make as many contacts as they can. Google is all about automation, and I'm sure their process for identifying potential candidates has no human input whatsoever.
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    I think we're agreeing with each other. Maybe I poorly phrased my comment, but I don't think sending an automated form email counts as 'specifically recruiting' OP, nor do I expect Google to spend time prior researching them.
    - mark-r 10y ago
      You're right, I totally misread your comment - if they were recruiting a specific person, they would have spent the 5 minutes to check them out. I don't think the emails are automated, I really do think there's a human at the other end, if nothing else they need someone to read your response. It's just that they're spending a minimal amount of time just to try to get you on the hook, and they'll use whatever information the automated system gave them to do that.
- blakeyrat 10y ago
  Right; but... are they? Or are they just trying to fill seats with warm bodies? Google does do "warm body" recruiting, for example, to staff their support lines for Google Apps and other small business-aimed services.
ptero 10y ago
Taking this analogy, cold calls and similar sales tactics are still being used, so they must bring at least some positive return. If the error costs are effectively zero, the recruiter may be still be getting benefits from mass mailings, although as a corporate strategy for Google it may not work too well.
- m52go 10y ago
  Good cold-calls are well-researched. In the sales world, the merits of research are well-known. An increased hit-rate is always worth the additional time in researching and qualifying before-hand.

by m52go 10y ago

madeofpalk 10y ago

When they have someone they specifically want to recruit/headhunt, I would expect them to spend at least 5 minutes research.

valarauca1 10y ago
Your argument boils down to: Large corporations do not have to sell employment. Potential employees should feel honored to merely be contacted on the basis of an opportunity. This sounds a lot like a cargo cult, or some weird corporatism worship. Frankly if I'm contacted by a recruiter who is a direct employee of a company, and it is blatantly obvious I'm receiving a form letter based on a keyword search of a resume data base. I know exactly what my role will be at this company, an employee ID in a database row.
- deong 10y ago
  I don't think the argument is that you must feel "honored". Just not personally affronted by it. I work for a company that has open developer positions. None of them are related to keyboard firmware, but if you told me nothing about a potential candidate except that he'd been doing keyboard firmware for fun, my first instinct would be, "great! Let's see if he wants to come in for an interview". Don't we all spout the company line about how specific skills are less important than "passion" or whatever? Well, then don't bitch if someone contacts you about something other than the specific skills on your CV. You don't have prostrate yourself before their glorious presence, but I don't see a reason to get upset about it.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  No, it doesn't. You're putting an awful lot of words in my mouth there. Generally speaking, they'll be two types of recruiting companies like this are doing: 1) General filling headcount. X department has N open roles for developers who they need suitable people for. It doesn't really matter who the person is, as long as they're suitable (and they'll figure that out with screening calls and interviews). These are the types of roles that these shotgun form emails are sent out to. 2) Headhunting specific people (for specific roles). A company is after someone in particular who they already know about, or they're after a fairly specific type of person (for an IMPORTANT role) so they'll do a bit research on who they want to approach. Of course I don't think anyone should feel honoured to receive a form email. I just don't think it's worth getting your knickers in a twist over it. They irritate me slightly, but I get over it. If I wrote a 1000 word article on every piece of recruiter spam[1] I receive I wouldn't have time to do actual work. [1] Amusing anecdote: One day In the office a whole bunch of phones and computers when off. I assumed it was a whole company email, but nope - it was a recruiter who had emailed everyone looking for MERN developers.
mark-r 10y ago
This is where you're wrong, they're not specifically recruiting this individual. They're playing a statistical game - use as many sources as possible to fill the pipeline in hopes that some percentage will make it through to the end. I'm sure the recruiters are incented to make as many contacts as they can. Google is all about automation, and I'm sure their process for identifying potential candidates has no human input whatsoever.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  I think we're agreeing with each other. Maybe I poorly phrased my comment, but I don't think sending an automated form email counts as 'specifically recruiting' OP, nor do I expect Google to spend time prior researching them.
  - mark-r 10y ago
    You're right, I totally misread your comment - if they were recruiting a specific person, they would have spent the 5 minutes to check them out. I don't think the emails are automated, I really do think there's a human at the other end, if nothing else they need someone to read your response. It's just that they're spending a minimal amount of time just to try to get you on the hook, and they'll use whatever information the automated system gave them to do that.
blakeyrat 10y ago
Right; but... are they? Or are they just trying to fill seats with warm bodies? Google does do "warm body" recruiting, for example, to staff their support lines for Google Apps and other small business-aimed services.

ptero 10y ago

Taking this analogy, cold calls and similar sales tactics are still being used, so they must bring at least some positive return. If the error costs are effectively zero, the recruiter may be still be getting benefits from mass mailings, although as a corporate strategy for Google it may not work too well.

m52go 10y ago
Good cold-calls are well-researched. In the sales world, the merits of research are well-known. An increased hit-rate is always worth the additional time in researching and qualifying before-hand.