9 ms·

In my experience, there is no joy without faith.

by genegc2 10y ago

ajuc 10y ago
In my experience there is.
- genegc2 10y ago
  That's certainly equally valid. But my brief comment was meant to also be a humble suggestion of another place to look - another thing worth trying. It's a viewpoint that definitely seems to be in the minority in this forum, but it's an important one to consider. A couple more ideas worth considering: - Coming to a place of faith starts like everything; it begins with the desire to have faith. - Consider the possibility that reason and faith are not mutually exclusive, but actually complementary (just give that concept a chance before dismissing it - it has a very strong intellectual history)
  - tasuki 10y ago
    A faith in what? One definition of faith found on the internet: "Belief not supported by evidence or reason, but assumption alone." I have seen many people finding happiness and/or purpose in believing various things not supported by evidence or reason, and have always wondered: how to choose which of these I should believe?
    - triangleman 10y ago
      Start small. I am going to refer you to some scripture but I am not asking you to accept it a priori as truth, only to investigate whether there may be any truth in it. Hebrews 11:6 says that he who comes to God "must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him". Essentially what I am asking you to believe is the truth of "seek and ye shall find"... that it is possible to find, provided that you seek. I am not telling you what you will find, how you will find it, what it will look like or sound like, etc., but only that there is something waiting to be found. Then if you take some steps towards God, you will be rewarded and you will learn a little bit about faith Again I am not going to presume I know exactly what those steps are for you but I will tell you I believe with all my heart that there ARE steps you can take, and even if you take the wrong steps, as long as you are seeking God I believe that he will reward you for your efforts, if only by correcting you from your misguided path. I hope this has been helpful. God bless.
      - brokenmachine 10y ago
        What a load of codswallop. I find it insulting to my intelligence to be asked to believe something with no evidence, and when I ask for evidence to be told that I shouldn't be asking. If god is willing to prevent Evil, but not able, he is not omnipotent. If he is able but not willing, he is malevolent. If he is able and willing, then whence cometh evil? If he is neither able nor willing, why call him god?
        genegc2 10y ago
        You bring up two issues here - the need for evidence, and the problem of pain and suffering. There are of course a lot of resources on both sides of the coin about those issues. I'll just summarize my very limited understanding - my personal approach. My faith is evidence based - but it can't be 100% proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Since it can't be proven, I'm forced to continue to grow in my understanding, and humbly continue the journey. And I have to make a deliberate choice to believe - based on the evidence I see and experience in my life. Also, since it can't be proven, I can't convince you to accept it - you have to do your own searching - you have to make your choice. I believe that this is by design, and I find it to be beautiful. The problem of pain and suffering is a lot harder to address in a brief comment. Nothing I can say in a few short lines will be very satisfying, unless you already believe or are wanting to believe. Here are a few thoughts... Pain and suffering are not good in and of themselves, but good can come from them. In order to escape all pain and suffering, we would have to surrender our freewill - and then what would be the point to life anyway? My level of understanding will always be limited. I have to approach this journey with humility. I can know a lot, but I can't know everything. I will work to alleviate pain and suffering where I can, and trust that in end, all the pain and suffering in the world will have brought about a glorious end that will be worth it.
        ajuc 10y ago
        > In order to escape all pain and suffering, we would have to surrender our freewill Why? I can write a game where you have choice, but no pain or suffering. Is God worse programmer? > and then what would be the point to life anyway? There's no "point to life". It's a sandbox game you have ~80 years to experience. Enjoy, while you can, and don't be a dick.

In my experience, there is no joy without faith.

by genegc2 10y ago

In my experience, there is no joy without faith.

ajuc 10y ago

In my experience there is.

genegc2 10y ago
That's certainly equally valid. But my brief comment was meant to also be a humble suggestion of another place to look - another thing worth trying. It's a viewpoint that definitely seems to be in the minority in this forum, but it's an important one to consider. A couple more ideas worth considering: - Coming to a place of faith starts like everything; it begins with the desire to have faith. - Consider the possibility that reason and faith are not mutually exclusive, but actually complementary (just give that concept a chance before dismissing it - it has a very strong intellectual history)
- tasuki 10y ago
  A faith in what? One definition of faith found on the internet: "Belief not supported by evidence or reason, but assumption alone." I have seen many people finding happiness and/or purpose in believing various things not supported by evidence or reason, and have always wondered: how to choose which of these I should believe?
  - triangleman 10y ago
    Start small. I am going to refer you to some scripture but I am not asking you to accept it a priori as truth, only to investigate whether there may be any truth in it. Hebrews 11:6 says that he who comes to God "must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him". Essentially what I am asking you to believe is the truth of "seek and ye shall find"... that it is possible to find, provided that you seek. I am not telling you what you will find, how you will find it, what it will look like or sound like, etc., but only that there is something waiting to be found. Then if you take some steps towards God, you will be rewarded and you will learn a little bit about faith Again I am not going to presume I know exactly what those steps are for you but I will tell you I believe with all my heart that there ARE steps you can take, and even if you take the wrong steps, as long as you are seeking God I believe that he will reward you for your efforts, if only by correcting you from your misguided path. I hope this has been helpful. God bless.
    - brokenmachine 10y ago
      What a load of codswallop. I find it insulting to my intelligence to be asked to believe something with no evidence, and when I ask for evidence to be told that I shouldn't be asking. If god is willing to prevent Evil, but not able, he is not omnipotent. If he is able but not willing, he is malevolent. If he is able and willing, then whence cometh evil? If he is neither able nor willing, why call him god?
      - genegc2 10y ago
        You bring up two issues here - the need for evidence, and the problem of pain and suffering. There are of course a lot of resources on both sides of the coin about those issues. I'll just summarize my very limited understanding - my personal approach. My faith is evidence based - but it can't be 100% proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Since it can't be proven, I'm forced to continue to grow in my understanding, and humbly continue the journey. And I have to make a deliberate choice to believe - based on the evidence I see and experience in my life. Also, since it can't be proven, I can't convince you to accept it - you have to do your own searching - you have to make your choice. I believe that this is by design, and I find it to be beautiful. The problem of pain and suffering is a lot harder to address in a brief comment. Nothing I can say in a few short lines will be very satisfying, unless you already believe or are wanting to believe. Here are a few thoughts... Pain and suffering are not good in and of themselves, but good can come from them. In order to escape all pain and suffering, we would have to surrender our freewill - and then what would be the point to life anyway? My level of understanding will always be limited. I have to approach this journey with humility. I can know a lot, but I can't know everything. I will work to alleviate pain and suffering where I can, and trust that in end, all the pain and suffering in the world will have brought about a glorious end that will be worth it.
        ajuc 10y ago
        > In order to escape all pain and suffering, we would have to surrender our freewill Why? I can write a game where you have choice, but no pain or suffering. Is God worse programmer? > and then what would be the point to life anyway? There's no "point to life". It's a sandbox game you have ~80 years to experience. Enjoy, while you can, and don't be a dick.