5 ms·
1. I am sorry, but you will have to settle for very light gray and very dark gray. Not black and white. 2. It is not just the media of US and Sweden -- most of
by berntb 10y ago
1. I am sorry, but you will have to settle for very light gray and very dark gray. Not black and white.
2. It is not just the media of US and Sweden -- most of the democratic world say the same thing. For most subjects, the democratic countries disagree.
- dleslie 10y agoI am attempting to argue for shades of grey; the American and Russian media narratives evoke a polarized situation. In that manner of thinking, I think it's fair to question the messenger who brings accusations of wrongdoing during a politically sensitive time. That is to say, this reporting came at a serendipitously good time for certain politicians. That everyone does it doesn't mean that everyone does it to the same extent, or with the same impact, or that doing it is at all justifiable.
- berntb 10y ago>> the American and Russian media narratives evoke a polarized situation. As it said in what you comment on: Not only "American" -- most every Western democracy. I think you are very much aware of that you didn't touch my second point above.
- dleslie 10y agoHow does that effect the legitimacy of the media engaging in cooperation with state actors for messaging, regardless of which state it is? It seems to me it doesn't matter who agrees with the Americans regarding the Russians; hell, I agree with the Americans regarding Russian propaganda.
- berntb 10y agoThis was not relevant to my point. 4 comments (in 2 places) without touching my point... :-( You are not serious, bye. You argue also in the other comments that there are small differences between USA and Russia -- my repeated point is that the whole Western democratic world don't agree with your assessments here. (In Sweden, a good part of the ex communists do agree with you -- at most 5-10% of the population-- but those guys have never supported a democracy in military conflict with a non democracy...)
- dleslie 10y agoMy assessment of the USA as being an Oligarchy is in good company[0]; feel free to google further. 0: http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPPS%2FPPS12_03%2FS1537592714001595a.pdf&code=fd0775fdcdaa54901e3a1a9fe14560df http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FPPS%2FPPS...
- berntb 10y agoStill not touching my point: it is not NY Times/CIA claims vs Putin's propaganda. It is claims by the democratic world vs Putin's paid propaganda.
- dleslie 10y agoI responded to that several times. It does not matter who agrees with whom about their allegations of another's wrong doing when that is not questioned. "Russia makes Propaganda." "That's ironic for them to say, as you're complicit in making American Propaganda." "These countries agree that Russia makes propaganda." "Russia makes propaganda. So does America." And so on. Hell, America makes propaganda wholesale with its military advisors program and huge logistic and financial support of Hollywood.
- berntb 10y agoYou started by agreeing that there were different levels of gray, now you really argue the same position as Putin's propaganda -- there is no real difference between the democracies and the dictators. Without doing any real discussion of all the liberty indexes and freedom of press etc... OK, enough. Bye.
- dleslie 10y agoI'm not claiming that there's no real difference; I'm claiming that it doesn't matter who agrees that Russia engages in propaganda. That doesn't change that America does as well. Is Russia or America worse? I don't care which is worse, that doesn't matter. They both do wrong things.