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"no one HAS to do something he doesn’t want to do for the rest of his life. But then again, if that’s what you wind up doing, by all means convince yourself tha

"no one HAS to do something he doesn’t want to do for the rest of his life. But then again, if that’s what you wind up doing, by all means convince yourself that you HAD to do it. You’ll have lots of company." Conformity

Fezzik 10y ago
Said slightly differently: "If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it." - Frank Zappa
- trentmb 10y ago
  I was told to follow Zappas 'advice.'
  - wonkaWonka 10y ago
    While we're referencing things from the 70's, including prog rock: You can choose a ready guide, in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose Free Will.
    - transposed 10y ago
      Ah, that one does it every time for me. Gotta love music with a message
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  Zappa preacher saying 'don't follow anyone's advice except mine'? It's definitely fair to remind people that they have options, but most people want stability, family, to watch the game, enjoy the sunset, and derive little joy from shaking things up and wagging it in other people's faces. Moreover - most people recognize that life is just as much a responsibility as it is an opportunity. The 'Rock N Roll' movement was about self actualization, but when everyone fully self-actualizes, there is nobody left to pay the bill for the hotel room that was just trashed. Life is fairly mundane, it's mostly just work, dealing with people, common things. Even for 'famous and exciting people'.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >Zappa preacher saying 'don't follow anyone's advice except mine'? No, saying "don't follow anyone's stupid advice", period. "Some guy on television telling you how to do your shit" could be him as well. Besides he didn't tell people what to do (even the above is not instruction, it's a warning) -- except not to fall for tele-evangelists and politicians. >The 'Rock N Roll' movement was about self actualization, but when everyone fully self-actualizes, there is nobody left to pay the bill for the hotel room that was just trashed. Zappa, for one, didn't do drugs, and didn't trash out hotel rooms. Moreover, he worked as hard as any founder, constantly practicing, in the road, and in the studio. He was also against BS self-actualization (e.g. anti hippy, anti "underground", anti rawkism). You may have him conflated with Sid Vicious or something, because his advice is definitely not about BS self-actualization and trashing hotel rooms...
  - thatcat 10y ago
    Zappa didn't trash hotel rooms or have outrageous parties, he made art and had a family. The self actualization was making that art into a life that paid the bills and fulfilled the rest of the responsibilities that everyone experiences.
  - zjg 10y ago
    is trashing hotel rooms really a form of self-actualization though? maybe for some, but i think that's more a form of letting out one's rage / frustrations that results from missing the other parts of the pyramid of needs. to me zappa's message isn't as irresponsible as you make it sound. i think a person can self-actualize and still be responsible and stable. for some, those things may even go hand in hand.
Toidiu 10y ago
I don't think it's necessary bad to choose a life that's ordinary. In fact he says that if you do then simply convince yourself that you had to. It's your life and you can always readjust your goals to match your circumstances.
- alanwatts 10y ago
  There's an old Zen saying that goes: "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." And another which reads: "Miraculous power, marvelous activity. Drawing water, chopping wood."
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal. Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it? The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation.
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      > "The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation." And that's a problem why?
    - alanwatts 10y ago
      >Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal. How should one measure self worth? >Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it? The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation. Who said everyone should follow any given approach? If everyone followed any particular approach to life it would lead to stagnation, extinction. On the contrary, Buddhism emphasizes change, as opposed to stagnation.
    - hv23 10y ago
      Stagnation in what sense?
jomamaxx 10y ago
You mean: 'Responsibility'. See those kids you have? No, don't have a choice but to raise them to the best of your ability.
- icebraining 10y ago
  The conformist part is believing that to raise kids to the best of one's ability requires one to do something one doesn’t want to do for the rest of one's life.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    From a certain point of view, it is always true. You will never get a second chance to raise any specific child.
- unexistance 10y ago
  ah yes of course, the trick is to guide them until they can discover things for themselves most of the time it's how to behave / conduct oneself in the presence of other humans, AND instill / 'indoctrinate' life-long love for knowledge p/s: yeah, it's a LOT trickier that it sounds

Fezzik 10y ago

Said slightly differently: "If you end up with a boring miserable life because you listened to your mom, your dad, your teacher, your priest, or some guy on television telling you how to do your shit, then you deserve it." - Frank Zappa

trentmb 10y ago
I was told to follow Zappas 'advice.'
- wonkaWonka 10y ago
  While we're referencing things from the 70's, including prog rock: You can choose a ready guide, in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose Free Will.
  - transposed 10y ago
    Ah, that one does it every time for me. Gotta love music with a message
jomamaxx 10y ago
Zappa preacher saying 'don't follow anyone's advice except mine'? It's definitely fair to remind people that they have options, but most people want stability, family, to watch the game, enjoy the sunset, and derive little joy from shaking things up and wagging it in other people's faces. Moreover - most people recognize that life is just as much a responsibility as it is an opportunity. The 'Rock N Roll' movement was about self actualization, but when everyone fully self-actualizes, there is nobody left to pay the bill for the hotel room that was just trashed. Life is fairly mundane, it's mostly just work, dealing with people, common things. Even for 'famous and exciting people'.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >Zappa preacher saying 'don't follow anyone's advice except mine'? No, saying "don't follow anyone's stupid advice", period. "Some guy on television telling you how to do your shit" could be him as well. Besides he didn't tell people what to do (even the above is not instruction, it's a warning) -- except not to fall for tele-evangelists and politicians. >The 'Rock N Roll' movement was about self actualization, but when everyone fully self-actualizes, there is nobody left to pay the bill for the hotel room that was just trashed. Zappa, for one, didn't do drugs, and didn't trash out hotel rooms. Moreover, he worked as hard as any founder, constantly practicing, in the road, and in the studio. He was also against BS self-actualization (e.g. anti hippy, anti "underground", anti rawkism). You may have him conflated with Sid Vicious or something, because his advice is definitely not about BS self-actualization and trashing hotel rooms...
- thatcat 10y ago
  Zappa didn't trash hotel rooms or have outrageous parties, he made art and had a family. The self actualization was making that art into a life that paid the bills and fulfilled the rest of the responsibilities that everyone experiences.
- zjg 10y ago
  is trashing hotel rooms really a form of self-actualization though? maybe for some, but i think that's more a form of letting out one's rage / frustrations that results from missing the other parts of the pyramid of needs. to me zappa's message isn't as irresponsible as you make it sound. i think a person can self-actualize and still be responsible and stable. for some, those things may even go hand in hand.

Toidiu 10y ago

I don't think it's necessary bad to choose a life that's ordinary. In fact he says that if you do then simply convince yourself that you had to. It's your life and you can always readjust your goals to match your circumstances.

alanwatts 10y ago
There's an old Zen saying that goes: "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." And another which reads: "Miraculous power, marvelous activity. Drawing water, chopping wood."
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal. Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it? The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    > "The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation." And that's a problem why?
  - alanwatts 10y ago
    >Worthless but happy is not a worthy goal. How should one measure self worth? >Verify any approach to life by generalisation: what would happen if everyone followed it? The Buddhist approach leads to stagnation. Who said everyone should follow any given approach? If everyone followed any particular approach to life it would lead to stagnation, extinction. On the contrary, Buddhism emphasizes change, as opposed to stagnation.
  - hv23 10y ago
    Stagnation in what sense?

jomamaxx 10y ago

You mean: 'Responsibility'. See those kids you have? No, don't have a choice but to raise them to the best of your ability.

icebraining 10y ago
The conformist part is believing that to raise kids to the best of one's ability requires one to do something one doesn’t want to do for the rest of one's life.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  From a certain point of view, it is always true. You will never get a second chance to raise any specific child.
unexistance 10y ago
ah yes of course, the trick is to guide them until they can discover things for themselves most of the time it's how to behave / conduct oneself in the presence of other humans, AND instill / 'indoctrinate' life-long love for knowledge p/s: yeah, it's a LOT trickier that it sounds