4 ms·

> It's pretty much a rite of passage here... most people have or will That's pretty silly. Plenty of people working in startups never put themselves through th

by ef4 10y ago

> It's pretty much a rite of passage here... most people have or will That's pretty silly. Plenty of people working in startups never put themselves through that kind of BS. There are at last two obvious strategies for avoiding the whole problem: (1) be a founder, (2) work in a more established tech company until you have the experience, personal network, and finances to intelligent pick a startup to work for.

GuiA 10y ago
Can confirm, did 1) and ended up with a deluded CEO cofounder, now in 2) and feeling much better.
- gwbas1c 10y ago
  Been down that route. Overall, my CEO co-founder was a very honest person; so I've continued our friendship. About 6 months after the business fell apart, he helped me meet my wife and was on the alter when we married. When we last talked, he indicated that he was going back to what he did before starting companies. I hope it works well for him, because if he can keep within the (not CEO) role that plays to his strengths; I'd happily work with him again.
20yrs_no_equity 10y ago
This is good advice, but I think everyone is best suited to doing number 2 before number 1. Most people are not ready to be a founder right out of the gate, and that's where a lot of the douchebag founder horror stories come from. Not because they want to be douchebags, just because they are so arrogant. One should spend five years building stuff before becoming a CEO.
erikb 10y ago
You think as founder you don't have to deal with that? Oh boy, you're in for quite a few surprises. And how do you learn about how to handle this if you work at more established companies? It's the kind of thing we all already know of because of tv shows like game of thrones. But experiencing and actually handling it is another topic.
- ef4 10y ago
  A psychopathic peer is not the same thing as a psychopathic boss. If you're doing your job, you know how much money is in the bank and you know what the value proposition of the business is, so the failure modes described in the article don't apply. I'm not saying a slipper cofounder can't also try to cheat you, but they have a lot less room to maneuver when you're not a subordinate.
  - erikb 10y ago
    The first thing you learn when you become the boss: You will never get rid of having a boss. Usually the boss's boss is the customer, because he's the one who pays the boss. And as long as there are no (or not enough) customers the boss's boss is the investor. So you won't ever be high enough to only deal with harmful people in equally powerful positions. Maybe being the president of the US or the owner of the biggest company can think like that. All other 7 billion people can't. And there is another vector we also shouldn't forget: The higher you get the higher the stakes. Getting f'd as an intern may mean you lose a few hundred bucks. Being an engineer or mid level manager means you play in the 4-6 digit range. And on officer level or above you play for at least a few hundred thousand dollars and with a lot of possibilities to break laws (or appear to break laws) and go to jail. So you probably won't have more safety, but more risk. If you really want to be save from these people, go live somewhere in the countryside far away from civilisation, grow your own food, and be nice to the other villagers.

by ef4 10y ago

GuiA 10y ago

Can confirm, did 1) and ended up with a deluded CEO cofounder, now in 2) and feeling much better.

gwbas1c 10y ago
Been down that route. Overall, my CEO co-founder was a very honest person; so I've continued our friendship. About 6 months after the business fell apart, he helped me meet my wife and was on the alter when we married. When we last talked, he indicated that he was going back to what he did before starting companies. I hope it works well for him, because if he can keep within the (not CEO) role that plays to his strengths; I'd happily work with him again.

20yrs_no_equity 10y ago

This is good advice, but I think everyone is best suited to doing number 2 before number 1. Most people are not ready to be a founder right out of the gate, and that's where a lot of the douchebag founder horror stories come from. Not because they want to be douchebags, just because they are so arrogant. One should spend five years building stuff before becoming a CEO.

erikb 10y ago

You think as founder you don't have to deal with that? Oh boy, you're in for quite a few surprises. And how do you learn about how to handle this if you work at more established companies? It's the kind of thing we all already know of because of tv shows like game of thrones. But experiencing and actually handling it is another topic.

ef4 10y ago
A psychopathic peer is not the same thing as a psychopathic boss. If you're doing your job, you know how much money is in the bank and you know what the value proposition of the business is, so the failure modes described in the article don't apply. I'm not saying a slipper cofounder can't also try to cheat you, but they have a lot less room to maneuver when you're not a subordinate.
- erikb 10y ago
  The first thing you learn when you become the boss: You will never get rid of having a boss. Usually the boss's boss is the customer, because he's the one who pays the boss. And as long as there are no (or not enough) customers the boss's boss is the investor. So you won't ever be high enough to only deal with harmful people in equally powerful positions. Maybe being the president of the US or the owner of the biggest company can think like that. All other 7 billion people can't. And there is another vector we also shouldn't forget: The higher you get the higher the stakes. Getting f'd as an intern may mean you lose a few hundred bucks. Being an engineer or mid level manager means you play in the 4-6 digit range. And on officer level or above you play for at least a few hundred thousand dollars and with a lot of possibilities to break laws (or appear to break laws) and go to jail. So you probably won't have more safety, but more risk. If you really want to be save from these people, go live somewhere in the countryside far away from civilisation, grow your own food, and be nice to the other villagers.