4 ms·

It ain't broken. Why fix it?

by kolokolo 10y ago

witty_username 10y ago
Python 3 has many new features and fixes. Maybe 5 years ago this was true, but not today.
- Nullabillity 10y ago
  And how many of them can't be backported to 2? You don't need to freeze the language, but if the alternative is breaking backwards compatibility after all that time...
  - goatlover 10y ago
    It's been seven years. Get over it already. That attitude keeps Python a fractured community.
    - kolokolo 10y ago
      This argument is just as valid as "You've been trying for 7 years. Give up already."
- snovv_crash 10y ago
  What is there in 3 that would benefit scientific computing which 2.7 doesn't have? TBH I don't see the value proposition. For web stuff you have asyncio, and for hackers there is the venv improvements, but what is there for scientific users who have work to get done?
nerdponx 10y ago
You could've said the same thing about black-and-white TV, AM radio, horse drawn carriages, et al.
- kolokolo 10y ago
  And there's still a lot of use for AM radio, for one.
  - nerdponx 10y ago
    In niche uses yes. But nobody uses it because "it ain't broke," they have a specific purpose on mind and can actually answer when someone asks what that purpose is. So far I have not heard anything like a real justification for why Py2 is still better
    - kolokolo 10y ago
      This comment branch starts with "tools that only support Py2". This ecosystem is what makes Py2 better for many.
    - srean 10y ago
      > So far I have not heard anything like a real justification for why Py2 is still better I think it needs to be the other way around. If you want me to move from something that works to something that you want me to move to, the onus is on you to show what the new thing does better (or would likely do better in the future). For scientific loads the Python3 story is mostly "not worth the trouble".
nnq 10y ago
And that's why I stopped using python for any web-related work and even general purpose scripting in favor of nodejs es6 or typescript. What happens in nodejs between a x.1 and a x.6 minor version is probably equivalent to a python 1.1 to python 2.7 one as amount of features added, except there are no backward compatibility breaks. I can't stand this attitude! Especially since the switching effort is incredibly small compared to any other language (ever switched Ruby major versions or PHP ones for a comparison?). (But yeah, I still use python for ML, and very much enjoy it here. Less syntactical masturbation better for focusing on the problem and not the tools.)

It ain't broken. Why fix it?

witty_username 10y ago

Python 3 has many new features and fixes. Maybe 5 years ago this was true, but not today.

Nullabillity 10y ago
And how many of them can't be backported to 2? You don't need to freeze the language, but if the alternative is breaking backwards compatibility after all that time...
- goatlover 10y ago
  It's been seven years. Get over it already. That attitude keeps Python a fractured community.
  - kolokolo 10y ago
    This argument is just as valid as "You've been trying for 7 years. Give up already."
snovv_crash 10y ago
What is there in 3 that would benefit scientific computing which 2.7 doesn't have? TBH I don't see the value proposition. For web stuff you have asyncio, and for hackers there is the venv improvements, but what is there for scientific users who have work to get done?

nerdponx 10y ago

You could've said the same thing about black-and-white TV, AM radio, horse drawn carriages, et al.

kolokolo 10y ago
And there's still a lot of use for AM radio, for one.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  In niche uses yes. But nobody uses it because "it ain't broke," they have a specific purpose on mind and can actually answer when someone asks what that purpose is. So far I have not heard anything like a real justification for why Py2 is still better
  - kolokolo 10y ago
    This comment branch starts with "tools that only support Py2". This ecosystem is what makes Py2 better for many.
  - srean 10y ago
    > So far I have not heard anything like a real justification for why Py2 is still better I think it needs to be the other way around. If you want me to move from something that works to something that you want me to move to, the onus is on you to show what the new thing does better (or would likely do better in the future). For scientific loads the Python3 story is mostly "not worth the trouble".

nnq 10y ago

And that's why I stopped using python for any web-related work and even general purpose scripting in favor of nodejs es6 or typescript. What happens in nodejs between a x.1 and a x.6 minor version is probably equivalent to a python 1.1 to python 2.7 one as amount of features added, except there are no backward compatibility breaks. I can't stand this attitude! Especially since the switching effort is incredibly small compared to any other language (ever switched Ruby major versions or PHP ones for a comparison?). (But yeah, I still use python for ML, and very much enjoy it here. Less syntactical masturbation better for focusing on the problem and not the tools.)