6 ms·

Also, support for unions is waning. Here in Philadelphia, union support is at an all time low. They were rendered toothless in recent elections for the first ti

twblalock 10y ago
50 years ago, they could have gotten away with this. Now, the demand for housing is so high that the unions can only delay the inevitable. Ironically, the NIMBYs and the unions have ended up on the same side of the housing issue. Most union members I know would be unhappy about being on the side of the privileged and established, and against the working-class people, for whom home affordability is of primary importance in CA and NY.
- hudibras 10y ago
  >Now, the demand for housing is so high that the unions can only delay the inevitable. The unions agree with you here, that's the whole point. The demand is so high that the developers will soon agree with the unions' requests in exchange for a slightly smaller profit.
  - twblalock 10y ago
    No, the developers will agree with everyone else except the NIMBYs and the unions, because union workers are a minority of workers, and they don't do a better job than non-unionized workers. In fact, they often do a worse job, because unions protect bad workers who could not survive outside of a union. The days when unions could get their way in these kinds of matters through outright bullying are long gone, and good riddance to them!
jseliger 10y ago
Also, support for unions is waning. Here in Philadelphia, union support is at an all time low. They were rendered toothless in recent elections for the first time ever, and a series of bad press (arson, assault, and destruction of property by union members) and continued ties to organized crime have worn thin sympathies. For good reason. They prevent accountability among police: http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/police-unions-produce-rules-that-protect http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/police-unions-produce-rule.... They also prevent educational innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Special-Interest-Teachers-Americas-Schools/dp/0815721293 https://www.amazon.com/Special-Interest-Teachers-Americas-Sc... and pr event urban schools from even functioning. As the topic article points out, construction unions are attacking the housing supply. Should it be a surprise that anyone who pays attention is unhappy with unions?
- twblalock 10y ago
  I generally agree with what you are saying, but I should point out that private-sector and public-sector unions are very different animals.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Maybe its because the public looks down upon unions that the middle class is slowly sliding into destitution? [1] [2] I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but besides the movement to push minimum wage up to $15/hr across the country, I don't see any organized groups continuing to push the salary threshold at which overtime pay is required, reducing the number of hours in a work week (which is f___ing insane we're still working ~40 hours a week with how much productivity has grown since the 60's), and so forth. Either unions or political activists must fight for these labor protections; pick your poison. [1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middl... [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/the-tipping-point-most-americans-no-longer-are-middle-class http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/...
  - techdragon 10y ago
    The 40 hour work week isn't a productivity related number... It's a cultural construction born from early 20th century union political efforts. For instance in Denmark, the work week is typically 32 hours and has been this way for decades... Works fine for them... Not sure how well it would work in a culture like America where working as hard as possible is considered a good thing... Regardless of how stupidly obvious it is that this screws up work life balance, individual stress levels and by extension individual health, in the country with the most fucked up health care system in the western world...
vacri 10y ago
There is also the point that most of the big battles have been won, now. The workplace is incredibly safer than it was 100 years ago. Workplace and wage laws are much more mature. There is welfare for the sick and the aged (to varying degrees depending on country). Apart from squabbling over the exact dollar rate for work, there isn't much in the way of big ticket items for unions to get solidarity over. My own personal experience with unions: 'I have a wage problem I need your help with' "You're only a part-time employee. We have to rate the full-time employees more, and we don't have the resources to help you, so no" 'But I pay the same as anyone else. There is no discount for being a part-timer' "(crickets)" So much for solidarity.

twblalock 10y ago

50 years ago, they could have gotten away with this. Now, the demand for housing is so high that the unions can only delay the inevitable. Ironically, the NIMBYs and the unions have ended up on the same side of the housing issue. Most union members I know would be unhappy about being on the side of the privileged and established, and against the working-class people, for whom home affordability is of primary importance in CA and NY.

hudibras 10y ago
>Now, the demand for housing is so high that the unions can only delay the inevitable. The unions agree with you here, that's the whole point. The demand is so high that the developers will soon agree with the unions' requests in exchange for a slightly smaller profit.
- twblalock 10y ago
  No, the developers will agree with everyone else except the NIMBYs and the unions, because union workers are a minority of workers, and they don't do a better job than non-unionized workers. In fact, they often do a worse job, because unions protect bad workers who could not survive outside of a union. The days when unions could get their way in these kinds of matters through outright bullying are long gone, and good riddance to them!

jseliger 10y ago

Also, support for unions is waning. Here in Philadelphia, union support is at an all time low. They were rendered toothless in recent elections for the first time ever, and a series of bad press (arson, assault, and destruction of property by union members) and continued ties to organized crime have worn thin sympathies. For good reason. They prevent accountability among police: http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/police-unions-produce-rules-that-protect http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/police-unions-produce-rule.... They also prevent educational innovation: https://www.amazon.com/Special-Interest-Teachers-Americas-Schools/dp/0815721293 https://www.amazon.com/Special-Interest-Teachers-Americas-Sc... and pr event urban schools from even functioning. As the topic article points out, construction unions are attacking the housing supply. Should it be a surprise that anyone who pays attention is unhappy with unions?

twblalock 10y ago
I generally agree with what you are saying, but I should point out that private-sector and public-sector unions are very different animals.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
Maybe its because the public looks down upon unions that the middle class is slowly sliding into destitution? [1] [2] I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but besides the movement to push minimum wage up to $15/hr across the country, I don't see any organized groups continuing to push the salary threshold at which overtime pay is required, reducing the number of hours in a work week (which is f___ing insane we're still working ~40 hours a week with how much productivity has grown since the 60's), and so forth. Either unions or political activists must fight for these labor protections; pick your poison. [1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middl... [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/the-tipping-point-most-americans-no-longer-are-middle-class http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/09/459087477/...
- techdragon 10y ago
  The 40 hour work week isn't a productivity related number... It's a cultural construction born from early 20th century union political efforts. For instance in Denmark, the work week is typically 32 hours and has been this way for decades... Works fine for them... Not sure how well it would work in a culture like America where working as hard as possible is considered a good thing... Regardless of how stupidly obvious it is that this screws up work life balance, individual stress levels and by extension individual health, in the country with the most fucked up health care system in the western world...

vacri 10y ago

There is also the point that most of the big battles have been won, now. The workplace is incredibly safer than it was 100 years ago. Workplace and wage laws are much more mature. There is welfare for the sick and the aged (to varying degrees depending on country). Apart from squabbling over the exact dollar rate for work, there isn't much in the way of big ticket items for unions to get solidarity over. My own personal experience with unions: 'I have a wage problem I need your help with' "You're only a part-time employee. We have to rate the full-time employees more, and we don't have the resources to help you, so no" 'But I pay the same as anyone else. There is no discount for being a part-timer' "(crickets)" So much for solidarity.