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The Empire State building was completed in 1931. It had 103 floors, took 13 months from start to finish, and cost $637M (adjusted for inflation). 83 years late

by nkoren 10y ago

The Empire State building was completed in 1931. It had 103 floors, took 13 months from start to finish, and cost $637M (adjusted for inflation). 83 years later, in the same city, the Freedom Tower was completed. It had one more floor, but took 102 months to build and cost $4B. Obviously that's only two data points, but it's broadly representative of the general trend. Our capacity to build infrastructure has declined dramatically over the past century. Obviously we're still able to do it, but the costs and timescales have increased by orders of magnitude.

Eerie 10y ago
>Obviously that's only two data points, but it's broadly representative of the general trend. NO, IT IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ANYTHING. So many things changed between 1931 and 2013, and the circumstances surrounding ESB and 1WTC are so different (9/11, for one) the comparison is utterly meaningless.
jamiek88 10y ago
How many deaths and serious injuries in comparison?
- gwright 10y ago
  > According to official records, five people died while constructing the Empire State Building. One was struck by a truck, another fell down an elevator shaft, a third was killed by explosives, a fourth struck by a hoist and the fifth fell from scaffolding. On the other hand it doesn't seem like the Freedom Tower construction had a very good record either (but I couldn't find any info on deaths): > In fact, The News found at least 81 incidents involving dangerous work conditions at the site since construction began in 2003. Through this year, at least 42 of those incidents involved workers falling from a height far enough to seriously injure themselves.
kalleboo 10y ago
And which one of those best ensured the safety, pension and healthcare of the workers?
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia, 5 people died building the Empire State Building. Workers dying on the job wasn't uncommon back in those days, and considering the size of the project, that's actually probably pretty good for that day and age. According to another poster here, the Freedom Tower had a whole bunch of safety incidents too and serious injuries. Obviously, safety has gotten better over the years, but it's not like people were falling off the ESB left and right during construction. Also, we have the benefits of modern technologies now: safety technologies, cranes, etc. It should be both faster and safer to build something that size, just like we can build cars now that are better than Model Ts in every single way. But it isn't. It's not about pensions, and it certainly isn't about healthcare (we don't have nationalized healthcare in the US, we have a complete fucking mess). The problem is politics and bureaucracy. We just can't get stuff done like we used to.
Pamar 10y ago
Just one note... maybe you should also try to factor in (maybe it's impossible, but do keep this in mind when comparing the two buildings) that probably some things were added later to the original 13-months building, like better thermal insulation, phone cables, air conditioning while the new one have these from the start. So you should compare 13 months/$637M + X months/ Y millions to update the original building to new standards.

by nkoren 10y ago

Eerie 10y ago

>Obviously that's only two data points, but it's broadly representative of the general trend. NO, IT IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ANYTHING. So many things changed between 1931 and 2013, and the circumstances surrounding ESB and 1WTC are so different (9/11, for one) the comparison is utterly meaningless.

jamiek88 10y ago

How many deaths and serious injuries in comparison?

gwright 10y ago
> According to official records, five people died while constructing the Empire State Building. One was struck by a truck, another fell down an elevator shaft, a third was killed by explosives, a fourth struck by a hoist and the fifth fell from scaffolding. On the other hand it doesn't seem like the Freedom Tower construction had a very good record either (but I couldn't find any info on deaths): > In fact, The News found at least 81 incidents involving dangerous work conditions at the site since construction began in 2003. Through this year, at least 42 of those incidents involved workers falling from a height far enough to seriously injure themselves.

kalleboo 10y ago

And which one of those best ensured the safety, pension and healthcare of the workers?

Grishnakh 10y ago
According to Wikipedia, 5 people died building the Empire State Building. Workers dying on the job wasn't uncommon back in those days, and considering the size of the project, that's actually probably pretty good for that day and age. According to another poster here, the Freedom Tower had a whole bunch of safety incidents too and serious injuries. Obviously, safety has gotten better over the years, but it's not like people were falling off the ESB left and right during construction. Also, we have the benefits of modern technologies now: safety technologies, cranes, etc. It should be both faster and safer to build something that size, just like we can build cars now that are better than Model Ts in every single way. But it isn't. It's not about pensions, and it certainly isn't about healthcare (we don't have nationalized healthcare in the US, we have a complete fucking mess). The problem is politics and bureaucracy. We just can't get stuff done like we used to.

Pamar 10y ago

Just one note... maybe you should also try to factor in (maybe it's impossible, but do keep this in mind when comparing the two buildings) that probably some things were added later to the original 13-months building, like better thermal insulation, phone cables, air conditioning while the new one have these from the start. So you should compare 13 months/$637M + X months/ Y millions to update the original building to new standards.