4 ms·

"The question I have is, how do you know that conscripted service, which is what you propose, is more effective than prison." It's not quite 'conscripted' - it

"The question I have is, how do you know that conscripted service, which is what you propose, is more effective than prison." It's not quite 'conscripted' - it's a choice. I was in the Army. And I have distant family members in prison. My friend - it's clear you don't have exposure to either. Nobody would compare serving in the Army to 'prison' unless that person really, really didn't want it - in which they could chose prison. Prison is a terrible, terrible place for most people. It's where people learn how to be criminals. And I didn't go from 'having something to believe in' to 'getting through two years of service'. They are not quite mutually exclusive. "Forced military service as a alternative to jail is not going to happen again. The military well remembers what damage even a single disgruntled draftee can do in the modern highly-technical military." This is not an issue, and neither is 'sabotage'. Also 'getting a job' and 'getting religion' are not comparable to prison or the military. In both prison and the military - you have a fairly guided life. You have a lot of set rules. You are required to follow a lot of rituals. Having a choice to go into the service for a couple of years instead of some kind of aggressive sentencing would be a great option, in 2016 for many kids, left to the judges and military's consent.

dalke 10y ago
"My friend", my wife served 8 years in the military and did two tours in Iraq and my grandfather served as a quartermaster. You are obviously extrapolating from no data when you say I have no exposure to the Army. I certainly have more experience with the Army than you have with the prison system. But you, "friend", keep talking about the experience in a modern volunteer army. What is your experience in a conscripted army? What is your experience in an army containing people whose choice is "jail or military"? From your history, your grandparents recently passed away, which means you no older than 50. The US became an all volunteer army in 1973, so if you, a non-American, served as a Combat Engineer in the US military then you at best heard things second-hand. You are right, it isn't conscription, but the difference is mighty small. If you are conscripted, you go into the military or you can choose to go jail. If you are in front of a judge, you go to prison or you can choose to join the military. The difference is almost only the time you might serve in jail. (Conscientious objectors have another option.) The US military flat out says they don't people who are forced to choose between the military or jail. Why do you think the military is so strongly against what you think would be so useful? (Hint: https://www.army.mil/article/106813/ https://www.army.mil/article/106813/ ) Do you believe in equal justice under the law? If so, what of those who cannot join the military, perhaps because they don't have a high school degree, or are too short, or handicapped, or don't meet some other military requirement? Or those who are pacifists or another type of C.O.? According to you, they'll become criminals as they have no other option than prison. Sucks to be them! Regarding the treatment in jails, I again point to my earlier statement, "By that I mean a sane prison, like what Norway has, with the goal of rehabilitation, and not the inhumane US prisons designed to punish." Do you think Norwegian jails are a place where people learn to be criminals? Ahh, but looking at your comment history I see you think the Norwegian penal system is morally corrupt, not punitive enough, and you think execution can be a form of justice. It seems you would rather have a penal system which breeds criminals than one which does its best to rehabilitate, though knowing there will be some failures. I notice you didn't answer my question about what you meant by "back in the day" and patriotism. Since you are not an American, which country and patriotism are you referring to?

dalke 10y ago

"My friend", my wife served 8 years in the military and did two tours in Iraq and my grandfather served as a quartermaster. You are obviously extrapolating from no data when you say I have no exposure to the Army. I certainly have more experience with the Army than you have with the prison system. But you, "friend", keep talking about the experience in a modern volunteer army. What is your experience in a conscripted army? What is your experience in an army containing people whose choice is "jail or military"? From your history, your grandparents recently passed away, which means you no older than 50. The US became an all volunteer army in 1973, so if you, a non-American, served as a Combat Engineer in the US military then you at best heard things second-hand. You are right, it isn't conscription, but the difference is mighty small. If you are conscripted, you go into the military or you can choose to go jail. If you are in front of a judge, you go to prison or you can choose to join the military. The difference is almost only the time you might serve in jail. (Conscientious objectors have another option.) The US military flat out says they don't people who are forced to choose between the military or jail. Why do you think the military is so strongly against what you think would be so useful? (Hint: https://www.army.mil/article/106813/ https://www.army.mil/article/106813/ ) Do you believe in equal justice under the law? If so, what of those who cannot join the military, perhaps because they don't have a high school degree, or are too short, or handicapped, or don't meet some other military requirement? Or those who are pacifists or another type of C.O.? According to you, they'll become criminals as they have no other option than prison. Sucks to be them! Regarding the treatment in jails, I again point to my earlier statement, "By that I mean a sane prison, like what Norway has, with the goal of rehabilitation, and not the inhumane US prisons designed to punish." Do you think Norwegian jails are a place where people learn to be criminals? Ahh, but looking at your comment history I see you think the Norwegian penal system is morally corrupt, not punitive enough, and you think execution can be a form of justice. It seems you would rather have a penal system which breeds criminals than one which does its best to rehabilitate, though knowing there will be some failures. I notice you didn't answer my question about what you meant by "back in the day" and patriotism. Since you are not an American, which country and patriotism are you referring to?