8 ms·

The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when

by pnathan 10y ago

The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when I asked for a receipt for an expense report, I got a hand-scribbled note. Running credit cards often required hand-based crank mechanisms. Autoplaying TV on the back of a seat that was billed unless you explicitly opted out. It was, in short, a scammy operation designed to squeeze you in all the impolite ways, and there was nothing you could do about it. When Uber/Lyft came on the scene, it took the scam out of the taxi industry and transformed the situation into one where you had a clear understanding of the price, where you could get a clear and reasonable receipt (emailed, even!), where you could pay with a card. You get a clear idea of how long the operator will take to arrive. I had to use a taxi in St Louis, MO last summer. In order to do this I had to call the taxi company. No app, no website, nothing. It took 45 minutes to show up, period. The driver couldn't find me when he got near. I am very glad I did not miss my flight. It reminded me again of how deeply I support the "ride-sharing" services. I consider the taxicab operations to be corrupt and effectively incompetent, frequently propped up by asinine medallion systems and graft at the city level. Therefore, I refuse to use taxis if Lyft or Uber are available. I will NOT intentionally contribute one red cent to these jokers. Now, all of what the author said about Uber's flouting of the law is true. And that's not something I'm terribly happy about. But I think there's a certain value in simply ignoring bad law and fixing it on the fly. Might be the American in me, but so it goes. In any case: if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed, Uber/Lyft will not have the profound advantage it has over the taxi industry in the US.

hkmurakami 10y ago
>if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed I've used Taxis in Japan across the country for 20+ years, can attest to its quality, reliability, and professionalism. It's on the expensive side, with rides usually starting at 700 yen (roughly 7USD) [1], but the drivers are courteous professionals who drive smoothly and know their cities and routes cold (if they don't, they'll apologize for not knowing and ask you for directions). The only downside is that sometimes the drivers are cigarette smokers. While they won't smoke inside the car, the odor can be very noticeable. [1] I believe this will be reduced to 500 yen soon.
- rwmj 10y ago
  And no tips too. The price on the meter is the price you pay, which avoids a whole set of extra hassle.
  - madeofpalk 10y ago
    Which, for what it's worth, how a lot of the world outside of the US operates. Taxis are rubbish in Australia, but you also aren't expected to tip.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      Tips are the most confusing thing by far about the US for me as a European.
      - mahranch 10y ago
        One of my best friends is from a country without tipping. He's well-traveled and has something like 20+ stamps in his passport. He says he loves tipping. I was a little curious so I asked him why, he said in countries without tipping, service is shit. Moreover, the demeanor of everyone involved is shit. He said "you Americans don't know how good you have it". I guess even someone fake being nice to you in expectation of a tip is better than being treated like dirt because you disrupted someone's cigarette break in Paris. He said the only exception to this is Japan. He says they have, hands down, the best service in the world. Whether you're in a family owned shop out in a rural area or some upscale joint in Roppongi, the people there actually care if you've enjoyed your food (and will nearly be offended if you try and tip them). Thought his opinion was a bit odd, but I think it might be valid considering his experience and the fact that he's not a naive, anti-establishment 20-something. He's fairly pragmatic and a realist.
        guy_c 10y ago
        Yep Japan is amazing. No tipping, but if you ask for help in a shop the staff will literally run to help you.
greggman 10y ago
I feel your pain. That's what taxi service has been like for me in SF and LA. Also it was effectively non-existent except for calling to be taken to the airport because there were so few. Japan, or at least the populated parts generally have tons of taxis so they are easy to find. They are polite and very clean, one thing western cabs are not. If they do something wrong (go the wrong way, end up taking the wrong road) more often than not they'll refund a portion of the fare without asking. I've had this happen a few times a year over the last 20 years. Singapore is similar. Tons of cabs. In fact in Singapore you could book cabs in an app / online since like 2009. You get told the number of your cab so when lots of cabs are driving up you know yours is #27B-6. I had similarly nice experiences. I tried to tip a driver $3 for a $7 fare just so I could give him a $10 and he was like "too much lah!" and gave me $2 back. I don't know how Uber is doing in Singapore but my understanding is not well. It's higher priced than local cabs for one. My point being I agree with you. It's totally the taxis fault for providing sub-par service. In places where that's not the case Uber is having difficulty. I suppose there's also the issue of car ownership though. For Uber to work you need people who own cars and are willing to drive them. Places like Tokyo and Singapore where most people don't own cars would probably make it harder to find drivers. I guess NYC has people from outside to drive in?
- dzhiurgis 10y ago
  Worth mentioning that in Singapore taxi's have special stops where people queue up just to get into one (much like a bus stop). I wonder how Uber drivers get away stoping everywhere they feel like. It is somewhat of a traffic disruption.
  - fennecfoxen 10y ago
    Don't know about Singapore, but they do it the same way as taxis the world over - they either find some place that's out of the way of traffic, like a side street or driveway (especially if the stop will take a while)... or they just sit there disrupting traffic and make people deal with it. Usually it's either a multi-lane road, or a smaller low-speed road where traffic can slow down a little and squeeze by. Not strictly ideal, but people cope.
  - 10y ago
privateersman 10y ago
I guess that's why I don't understand the hype. In many countries Uber is just another taxi brand, one that's licensed by the local authorities. The only thing it has going for it is the app, but all their competitors have apps too. Plus, I've never had to use an app - I just call an automated number, press one digit and a taxi arrives at my door within a few minutes. If I'm using a mobile phone then the operator answers.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Maybe - but in many countries it isn't. In my European country, calling a cab means always talking to the operator (often after 2m ringing) and then waiting 10-30m. Around 10% of the time it never comes, so you'll have to call again. When it finally does, your reward is paying an extra fee for having called. Then there are the zones; your home is a bit outside the city? The meter will be running - at an increased rate! - before the car even arrives.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Never had that problem here in Edinburgh - been using the same cab company for years (both personal and business). They have an app or an IVR system or an operator. Never had a missed cab, cars are always very clean and drivers good. I honestly can't think of a single problem I've had with them in what must be 15+ years of regular use.
matt_wulfeck 10y ago
> Now, all of what the author said about Uber's flouting of the law is true. And that's not something I'm terribly happy about. But I think there's a certain value in simply ignoring bad law and fixing it on the fly. And this is the problem. Uber is providing superior service for less cost. Clearly the city, which enacts laws on my and other tax payers behalf, isn't actually acting in my favor when it goes after uber and lyft. If we manifestly don't need the laws protecting the taxi racket then let's do away with the regulation -- not pile more on.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  But regulation also helps in parts. For example, it (tries) to ensure taxis are available everywhere, not just the profitable areas.
  - autokad 10y ago
    at least, thats what the politician tells you in order to accept the fleecing of your wallet
  - aianus 10y ago
    How? By strictly constricting supply so drivers only serve the rich, dense areas? /s
  - skybrian 10y ago
    That's what they try to do but my understanding is that Uber and Lyft actually do a better job of it?
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Trying, plus $5, will get you a Starbucks latte. Results are what count. I couldn't care less about the motivation behind regulations, just the outcomes. The outcomes in many places are that taxis are inferior in every way.
the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
> The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Which is why in Europe things like Hailonand MyTaxi are taking off. They put a level of indirection between you and the driver by handling the payment and receipt. They are great as a result. The rest of the uber experience I care a surprising little amount about.
dionidium 10y ago
"I had to use a taxi in St Louis, MO last summer. In order to do this I had to call the taxi company. No app, no website, nothing. It took 45 minutes to show up, period. The driver couldn't find me when he got near." This is almost all true and ride-sharing has totally changed the game in St. Louis. One nitpick: the area's biggest cab company has had an app for a few years [0]. It's not a perfect app, but I used it a lot before Uber started operating. [0] STLtaxi by Laclede Cab https://appsto.re/us/OF-TL.i https://appsto.re/us/OF-TL.i
- walshemj 10y ago
  Is calling rather then messing about with an app so much harder? It takes me 20-30 seconds to call and order a cab in the UK
  - mixedCase 10y ago
    While I don't know about this particular app, some taxi apps track the unit by GPS and show you where it's currently located, which lets you know wether the wait was warranted or not.
  - pnathan 10y ago
    Let's just say that an app with a GPS unit sweeps a profound number of communication issues into the trash. :-) And it gets much better when you can see an ETA and an approximate location of the incoming cab.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Yes. You need to figure out your address or cross streets instead of having your phone give your position with three meters of accuracy, you have to wait if the operator is busy with something else, you have no record of your request if they forget about you, the ETAs are often completely made up, you have no way to track your car and know when it's about to arrive, and get no identifying information about the car or driver that's picking you up.
    - walshemj 10y ago
pandler 10y ago
A few years ago I was living in Boston across the harbor. The only way to get there is via subway (which closes at midnight) or via car through an underground/underwater tunnel. If I hailed a cab and make the mistake of disclosing my destination before getting in the car, they'd usually just drive off without saying anything. If I got in the car before telling them where I was going, they'd often start making a fuss and listing off excuses as to why they couldn't go there, and I'd basically have to "force" them to drive. I never got such grief from Uber.
TuringNYC 10y ago
Totally agreed. I am on a business deal that brought me to the country of Qatar. Many of the yellow cabs here (blue over here) refused to turn on their meters instead trying to negotiate a fare with you -- often starting at 2x or 3x the actual fare and trying to see how much upside they could keep. They would be nice initially and then try to arm-twist you at the end of the ride. Uber arrived and caught on like wildfire. You didn't need to negotiate, they didn't need to pretend not to have change, etc. The no-nonsense system is what makes Uber so remarkable.
- IkmoIkmo 10y ago
  I mean it really depends... like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. All taxis have a number on the top of the car, so you can just easily report it. And the penalties for drivers are actually quite harsh, even just referring to 'I know the taxi number' means he's shutting up, turning on the meter and getting you to where you need. You can still have a shitty experience, but for locals it's mostly fine. I doubt Uber will take off there in any big way. I'm wondering if that's the same way for Qatari locals, or if there was another reason for Uber to catch on.
  - onlyfortoday2 10y ago
    . like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. "unless you look foreign"so happens alot to tourists?
  - pnathan 10y ago
    > mean it really depends... like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. Ah, so, Uber will have a permanent presence to serve tourists. I see how this is. :-)
achikin 10y ago
In Russia, such kind of services started way before Uber just as the next step in the evolution of taxi companies, benefitting from the same things as Uber did: no regulations, no taxes etc. The first apps were targeting JavaMe phones! So, from the Russian perspective, Uber is just another competitor in the flooded market. We were actually surprised that Uber is treated as an innovative startup in the USA.
zodvik 10y ago
Absolutely the same case in India and then some more. I would argue that Uber (and Ola) have raised my standard of living as far as transport is concerned. I've stayed in Bangalore & Chennai and have travelled in a few more cities. All problems that you mention ring true here plus an additional things - most taxis & autorickshaws don't even run on the meter. Every ride involves a ritual of haggling the price. If you're new to a city, it is certain that you would be fleeced. Then, many would deny the ride to a destination if it is not a hotspot. On few days I've take the local transport, I get dropped off a kilometre away from my home and have to walk the rest. I would never take a local taxi or an autorickshaw if there is an Uber/Ola available.

by pnathan 10y ago

hkmurakami 10y ago

>if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed I've used Taxis in Japan across the country for 20+ years, can attest to its quality, reliability, and professionalism. It's on the expensive side, with rides usually starting at 700 yen (roughly 7USD) [1], but the drivers are courteous professionals who drive smoothly and know their cities and routes cold (if they don't, they'll apologize for not knowing and ask you for directions). The only downside is that sometimes the drivers are cigarette smokers. While they won't smoke inside the car, the odor can be very noticeable. [1] I believe this will be reduced to 500 yen soon.

rwmj 10y ago
And no tips too. The price on the meter is the price you pay, which avoids a whole set of extra hassle.
- madeofpalk 10y ago
  Which, for what it's worth, how a lot of the world outside of the US operates. Taxis are rubbish in Australia, but you also aren't expected to tip.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    Tips are the most confusing thing by far about the US for me as a European.
    - mahranch 10y ago
      One of my best friends is from a country without tipping. He's well-traveled and has something like 20+ stamps in his passport. He says he loves tipping. I was a little curious so I asked him why, he said in countries without tipping, service is shit. Moreover, the demeanor of everyone involved is shit. He said "you Americans don't know how good you have it". I guess even someone fake being nice to you in expectation of a tip is better than being treated like dirt because you disrupted someone's cigarette break in Paris. He said the only exception to this is Japan. He says they have, hands down, the best service in the world. Whether you're in a family owned shop out in a rural area or some upscale joint in Roppongi, the people there actually care if you've enjoyed your food (and will nearly be offended if you try and tip them). Thought his opinion was a bit odd, but I think it might be valid considering his experience and the fact that he's not a naive, anti-establishment 20-something. He's fairly pragmatic and a realist.
      - guy_c 10y ago
        Yep Japan is amazing. No tipping, but if you ask for help in a shop the staff will literally run to help you.

greggman 10y ago

I feel your pain. That's what taxi service has been like for me in SF and LA. Also it was effectively non-existent except for calling to be taken to the airport because there were so few. Japan, or at least the populated parts generally have tons of taxis so they are easy to find. They are polite and very clean, one thing western cabs are not. If they do something wrong (go the wrong way, end up taking the wrong road) more often than not they'll refund a portion of the fare without asking. I've had this happen a few times a year over the last 20 years. Singapore is similar. Tons of cabs. In fact in Singapore you could book cabs in an app / online since like 2009. You get told the number of your cab so when lots of cabs are driving up you know yours is #27B-6. I had similarly nice experiences. I tried to tip a driver $3 for a $7 fare just so I could give him a $10 and he was like "too much lah!" and gave me $2 back. I don't know how Uber is doing in Singapore but my understanding is not well. It's higher priced than local cabs for one. My point being I agree with you. It's totally the taxis fault for providing sub-par service. In places where that's not the case Uber is having difficulty. I suppose there's also the issue of car ownership though. For Uber to work you need people who own cars and are willing to drive them. Places like Tokyo and Singapore where most people don't own cars would probably make it harder to find drivers. I guess NYC has people from outside to drive in?

dzhiurgis 10y ago
Worth mentioning that in Singapore taxi's have special stops where people queue up just to get into one (much like a bus stop). I wonder how Uber drivers get away stoping everywhere they feel like. It is somewhat of a traffic disruption.
- fennecfoxen 10y ago
  Don't know about Singapore, but they do it the same way as taxis the world over - they either find some place that's out of the way of traffic, like a side street or driveway (especially if the stop will take a while)... or they just sit there disrupting traffic and make people deal with it. Usually it's either a multi-lane road, or a smaller low-speed road where traffic can slow down a little and squeeze by. Not strictly ideal, but people cope.
- 10y ago

privateersman 10y ago

I guess that's why I don't understand the hype. In many countries Uber is just another taxi brand, one that's licensed by the local authorities. The only thing it has going for it is the app, but all their competitors have apps too. Plus, I've never had to use an app - I just call an automated number, press one digit and a taxi arrives at my door within a few minutes. If I'm using a mobile phone then the operator answers.

icebraining 10y ago
Maybe - but in many countries it isn't. In my European country, calling a cab means always talking to the operator (often after 2m ringing) and then waiting 10-30m. Around 10% of the time it never comes, so you'll have to call again. When it finally does, your reward is paying an extra fee for having called. Then there are the zones; your home is a bit outside the city? The meter will be running - at an increased rate! - before the car even arrives.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Never had that problem here in Edinburgh - been using the same cab company for years (both personal and business). They have an app or an IVR system or an operator. Never had a missed cab, cars are always very clean and drivers good. I honestly can't think of a single problem I've had with them in what must be 15+ years of regular use.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago

> Now, all of what the author said about Uber's flouting of the law is true. And that's not something I'm terribly happy about. But I think there's a certain value in simply ignoring bad law and fixing it on the fly. And this is the problem. Uber is providing superior service for less cost. Clearly the city, which enacts laws on my and other tax payers behalf, isn't actually acting in my favor when it goes after uber and lyft. If we manifestly don't need the laws protecting the taxi racket then let's do away with the regulation -- not pile more on.

madeofpalk 10y ago
But regulation also helps in parts. For example, it (tries) to ensure taxis are available everywhere, not just the profitable areas.
- autokad 10y ago
  at least, thats what the politician tells you in order to accept the fleecing of your wallet
- aianus 10y ago
  How? By strictly constricting supply so drivers only serve the rich, dense areas? /s
- skybrian 10y ago
  That's what they try to do but my understanding is that Uber and Lyft actually do a better job of it?
- mikeash 10y ago
  Trying, plus $5, will get you a Starbucks latte. Results are what count. I couldn't care less about the motivation behind regulations, just the outcomes. The outcomes in many places are that taxis are inferior in every way.

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago

> The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Which is why in Europe things like Hailonand MyTaxi are taking off. They put a level of indirection between you and the driver by handling the payment and receipt. They are great as a result. The rest of the uber experience I care a surprising little amount about.

dionidium 10y ago

"I had to use a taxi in St Louis, MO last summer. In order to do this I had to call the taxi company. No app, no website, nothing. It took 45 minutes to show up, period. The driver couldn't find me when he got near." This is almost all true and ride-sharing has totally changed the game in St. Louis. One nitpick: the area's biggest cab company has had an app for a few years [0]. It's not a perfect app, but I used it a lot before Uber started operating. [0] STLtaxi by Laclede Cab https://appsto.re/us/OF-TL.i https://appsto.re/us/OF-TL.i

walshemj 10y ago
Is calling rather then messing about with an app so much harder? It takes me 20-30 seconds to call and order a cab in the UK
- mixedCase 10y ago
  While I don't know about this particular app, some taxi apps track the unit by GPS and show you where it's currently located, which lets you know wether the wait was warranted or not.
- pnathan 10y ago
  Let's just say that an app with a GPS unit sweeps a profound number of communication issues into the trash. :-) And it gets much better when you can see an ETA and an approximate location of the incoming cab.
- mikeash 10y ago
  Yes. You need to figure out your address or cross streets instead of having your phone give your position with three meters of accuracy, you have to wait if the operator is busy with something else, you have no record of your request if they forget about you, the ETAs are often completely made up, you have no way to track your car and know when it's about to arrive, and get no identifying information about the car or driver that's picking you up.
  - walshemj 10y ago

pandler 10y ago

A few years ago I was living in Boston across the harbor. The only way to get there is via subway (which closes at midnight) or via car through an underground/underwater tunnel. If I hailed a cab and make the mistake of disclosing my destination before getting in the car, they'd usually just drive off without saying anything. If I got in the car before telling them where I was going, they'd often start making a fuss and listing off excuses as to why they couldn't go there, and I'd basically have to "force" them to drive. I never got such grief from Uber.

TuringNYC 10y ago

Totally agreed. I am on a business deal that brought me to the country of Qatar. Many of the yellow cabs here (blue over here) refused to turn on their meters instead trying to negotiate a fare with you -- often starting at 2x or 3x the actual fare and trying to see how much upside they could keep. They would be nice initially and then try to arm-twist you at the end of the ride. Uber arrived and caught on like wildfire. You didn't need to negotiate, they didn't need to pretend not to have change, etc. The no-nonsense system is what makes Uber so remarkable.

IkmoIkmo 10y ago
I mean it really depends... like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. All taxis have a number on the top of the car, so you can just easily report it. And the penalties for drivers are actually quite harsh, even just referring to 'I know the taxi number' means he's shutting up, turning on the meter and getting you to where you need. You can still have a shitty experience, but for locals it's mostly fine. I doubt Uber will take off there in any big way. I'm wondering if that's the same way for Qatari locals, or if there was another reason for Uber to catch on.
- onlyfortoday2 10y ago
  . like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. "unless you look foreign"so happens alot to tourists?
- pnathan 10y ago
  > mean it really depends... like in Morocco this never happens, unless you look foreign. Ah, so, Uber will have a permanent presence to serve tourists. I see how this is. :-)

achikin 10y ago

In Russia, such kind of services started way before Uber just as the next step in the evolution of taxi companies, benefitting from the same things as Uber did: no regulations, no taxes etc. The first apps were targeting JavaMe phones! So, from the Russian perspective, Uber is just another competitor in the flooded market. We were actually surprised that Uber is treated as an innovative startup in the USA.

zodvik 10y ago

Absolutely the same case in India and then some more. I would argue that Uber (and Ola) have raised my standard of living as far as transport is concerned. I've stayed in Bangalore & Chennai and have travelled in a few more cities. All problems that you mention ring true here plus an additional things - most taxis & autorickshaws don't even run on the meter. Every ride involves a ritual of haggling the price. If you're new to a city, it is certain that you would be fleeced. Then, many would deny the ride to a destination if it is not a hotspot. On few days I've take the local transport, I get dropped off a kilometre away from my home and have to walk the rest. I would never take a local taxi or an autorickshaw if there is an Uber/Ola available.