4 ms·

Puts things in perspective eh? Not just with the political situation in the US, but in other maligned places like China (which has recently had conflicts with

by Mikeb85 10y ago

Puts things in perspective eh? Not just with the political situation in the US, but in other maligned places like China (which has recently had conflicts with the Philippines over parts of the South China Sea) and Russia, which is blamed for every single societal ill these days it seems (Hillary seems to think Putin is the head of the 'alt-right' movement).

altcognito 10y ago
Not the head, but he supports nationalists movements within the western world to encourage a less uniform resistance to his expansionist plans: http://blog.adl.org/extremism/american-white-supremacists-attend-russian-nationalist-conference http://blog.adl.org/extremism/american-white-supremacists-at... http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/putin-follower-appear-us-white-supremacists-far-right-conference-1463350 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/putin-follower-appear-us-white-supr... https://antifascistnews.net/2015/12/21/racists-today-why-is-russia-today-using-white-nationalist-commentators/ https://antifascistnews.net/2015/12/21/racists-today-why-is-...
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  There's far better evidence you could use to prove your point. Instead you choose to highlight parties that Putin doesn't support, and US parties that aren't actually part of the 'alt-right'. All it shows is that you bought into Hillary's propaganda.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  For years, RT, a Russian-government controlled broadcaster, has been pushing left-wing propaganda favoring the Democrats. Of course, you've never heard about that, but you've heard about Putin recently supporting some right-wing groups. Could it be because one benefits the political narrative of most journalists but the other does not? Putin uses his propaganda machine to support whatever he thinks serves his interests at that time. This year it's a soft-on-Russia Trump. A few years before, it was the soft-on-Russia Democrats. I promise it'll never be Mitt Romney or John McCain though. And in general, it's a little amusing seeing the American Left suddenly discover this year that they are anti-Russian cold-warriors, after decades of being the exact opposite.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > RT, a Russian-government controlled broadcaster, has been pushing left-wing propaganda Having seen/read a bunch of RT, I don't think that's true. It's propaganda, but it's whatever suits the Kremlin at the time, usually framing issues in ways that favor them. Certainly, favoring Russia's invasion of Ukraine or Assad is not "left-wing propaganda", as easy examples.
    - pyre 10y ago
      > Certainly, favoring Russia's invasion of Ukraine or Assad is not "left-wing propaganda", as easy examples. Didn't you hear? Putin invaded the Ukraine because he wanted to setup a bunch organic grocery stores and yoga studios? He's really a left-wing kinda guy! /s
      - marcoperaza 10y ago
        He wants a meek and ineffective West devoid of moral confidence in itself.
  - mwfunk 10y ago
    It's crazy but true, and it makes perfect sense- Trump said that in the event of a Russian invasion of a NATO member nation, he would consider standing up to Russia and honoring America's NATO obligations, but only if the other alliance members could pony up the cash for it first. That's got to be music to Putin's ears. All Clinton had to do was assert that yes, the US would honor military alliances that it actively belongs to, and she instantly became the more hawkish one where Russia is concerned. What a crazy freaking world we live in, and not in a good way sometimes. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-foreign-policy-interview.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-f...
  - int_19h 10y ago
    I'm Russian, and I've heard plenty about how Putin regime supports far right-wing in Europe from Russian sources for several years now. Russian lefties (the actual ones, who call themselves "socialists" and really mean it, Marx in hand - not what you call that in US) are especially vigilant in that regard, and will bring it up whenever they do something like inviting leaders of far-right parties for a conference. Russia essentially is, in many respects, what European and American far right desires to be (which is why they generally tend to have a positive opinion of it). Its propaganda, both inside and outside, is clearly reminiscent of that - for example, the usual topics of "Western decadence" are brought up a lot, with the implication that Russia has nothing to worry in that regard. Naturally, these kinds of opinions lend to political alliances with far-right Western parties that share a lot of the same worries.
hackuser 10y ago
> Russia, which is blamed for every single societal ill these days I don't see this at all, other than things Russia does (in Ukraine, Syria, Georgia, and DNC computers).
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  First, do you remember when the US engineered the Orange and Rose 'revolutions'? Or when the US incited Saakashvili to go to war with Russia? As for Syria, I don't see what you could possibly blame Russia for there, except preventing a genocide of the few Christians and non-Sunni Muslims that are left there. Concerning the DNC 'hack', most of the new evidence points to it being a leak, not a hack. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/julian-assange-more-clinton-leaks-227438 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/julian-assange-more-cl... But yes, blame Russia for everything. PS. Have you seen Victor Yushchenko's face lately? He's looking pretty good.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    Hard to tell if you are serious, sarcastic, or a troll. For anyone not familiar with it, the above repeats Russian propaganda like it's straight out of the manual (though I hadn't heard the DNC hack one before, but that's a pretty new topic). Unfortunately, the facts don't cooperate. Russia does pay teams of astroturfers; perhaps I've met one! What's it like to work there? HN readers would be very curious to know.
    - Mikeb85 10y ago
      Nice rebuttal. Ignore the facts, accuse me of being a paid troll. It's ok, you probably don't follow world news beyond the occasional CNN sound bite. Its pretty damn amazing how few people remember the colour revolutions of a few years ago, or the many other times the US has overthrown foreign governments.
      - hackuser 10y ago
        Probably I follow world news more, and at a more sophisticated level, than anyone you know (besides journalists on that beat or practitioners, and possibly not even then).
Spooky23 10y ago
The difference is that the Phillipenes is a backwater with limited influence. A Filipino strongman's influence is local, and if he causes trouble with China or Japan, he can be curbed. A guy like Trump, who shoots from the hip and cannot take advice is easily manipulated by somebody like Putin or any number of others who has a better grasp of the subtleties of power. The impact of that when you're talking about the United States is scary. Trump is a street fighter. He could be a good governor by using the bully pulpit to whip local people into line, and develop a cadre of .gov people with a clue. But the presidency is over his head, and his trusted advisors who were running construction projects and golf courses will drown in the federal bureaucracy.

by Mikeb85 10y ago

altcognito 10y ago

Not the head, but he supports nationalists movements within the western world to encourage a less uniform resistance to his expansionist plans: http://blog.adl.org/extremism/american-white-supremacists-attend-russian-nationalist-conference http://blog.adl.org/extremism/american-white-supremacists-at... http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/putin-follower-appear-us-white-supremacists-far-right-conference-1463350 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/putin-follower-appear-us-white-supr... https://antifascistnews.net/2015/12/21/racists-today-why-is-russia-today-using-white-nationalist-commentators/ https://antifascistnews.net/2015/12/21/racists-today-why-is-...

Mikeb85 10y ago
There's far better evidence you could use to prove your point. Instead you choose to highlight parties that Putin doesn't support, and US parties that aren't actually part of the 'alt-right'. All it shows is that you bought into Hillary's propaganda.
marcoperaza 10y ago
For years, RT, a Russian-government controlled broadcaster, has been pushing left-wing propaganda favoring the Democrats. Of course, you've never heard about that, but you've heard about Putin recently supporting some right-wing groups. Could it be because one benefits the political narrative of most journalists but the other does not? Putin uses his propaganda machine to support whatever he thinks serves his interests at that time. This year it's a soft-on-Russia Trump. A few years before, it was the soft-on-Russia Democrats. I promise it'll never be Mitt Romney or John McCain though. And in general, it's a little amusing seeing the American Left suddenly discover this year that they are anti-Russian cold-warriors, after decades of being the exact opposite.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > RT, a Russian-government controlled broadcaster, has been pushing left-wing propaganda Having seen/read a bunch of RT, I don't think that's true. It's propaganda, but it's whatever suits the Kremlin at the time, usually framing issues in ways that favor them. Certainly, favoring Russia's invasion of Ukraine or Assad is not "left-wing propaganda", as easy examples.
  - pyre 10y ago
    > Certainly, favoring Russia's invasion of Ukraine or Assad is not "left-wing propaganda", as easy examples. Didn't you hear? Putin invaded the Ukraine because he wanted to setup a bunch organic grocery stores and yoga studios? He's really a left-wing kinda guy! /s
    - marcoperaza 10y ago
      He wants a meek and ineffective West devoid of moral confidence in itself.
- mwfunk 10y ago
  It's crazy but true, and it makes perfect sense- Trump said that in the event of a Russian invasion of a NATO member nation, he would consider standing up to Russia and honoring America's NATO obligations, but only if the other alliance members could pony up the cash for it first. That's got to be music to Putin's ears. All Clinton had to do was assert that yes, the US would honor military alliances that it actively belongs to, and she instantly became the more hawkish one where Russia is concerned. What a crazy freaking world we live in, and not in a good way sometimes. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-foreign-policy-interview.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/us/politics/donald-trump-f...
- int_19h 10y ago
  I'm Russian, and I've heard plenty about how Putin regime supports far right-wing in Europe from Russian sources for several years now. Russian lefties (the actual ones, who call themselves "socialists" and really mean it, Marx in hand - not what you call that in US) are especially vigilant in that regard, and will bring it up whenever they do something like inviting leaders of far-right parties for a conference. Russia essentially is, in many respects, what European and American far right desires to be (which is why they generally tend to have a positive opinion of it). Its propaganda, both inside and outside, is clearly reminiscent of that - for example, the usual topics of "Western decadence" are brought up a lot, with the implication that Russia has nothing to worry in that regard. Naturally, these kinds of opinions lend to political alliances with far-right Western parties that share a lot of the same worries.

hackuser 10y ago

> Russia, which is blamed for every single societal ill these days I don't see this at all, other than things Russia does (in Ukraine, Syria, Georgia, and DNC computers).

Mikeb85 10y ago
First, do you remember when the US engineered the Orange and Rose 'revolutions'? Or when the US incited Saakashvili to go to war with Russia? As for Syria, I don't see what you could possibly blame Russia for there, except preventing a genocide of the few Christians and non-Sunni Muslims that are left there. Concerning the DNC 'hack', most of the new evidence points to it being a leak, not a hack. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/julian-assange-more-clinton-leaks-227438 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/julian-assange-more-cl... But yes, blame Russia for everything. PS. Have you seen Victor Yushchenko's face lately? He's looking pretty good.
- hackuser 10y ago
  Hard to tell if you are serious, sarcastic, or a troll. For anyone not familiar with it, the above repeats Russian propaganda like it's straight out of the manual (though I hadn't heard the DNC hack one before, but that's a pretty new topic). Unfortunately, the facts don't cooperate. Russia does pay teams of astroturfers; perhaps I've met one! What's it like to work there? HN readers would be very curious to know.
  - Mikeb85 10y ago
    Nice rebuttal. Ignore the facts, accuse me of being a paid troll. It's ok, you probably don't follow world news beyond the occasional CNN sound bite. Its pretty damn amazing how few people remember the colour revolutions of a few years ago, or the many other times the US has overthrown foreign governments.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      Probably I follow world news more, and at a more sophisticated level, than anyone you know (besides journalists on that beat or practitioners, and possibly not even then).

Spooky23 10y ago

The difference is that the Phillipenes is a backwater with limited influence. A Filipino strongman's influence is local, and if he causes trouble with China or Japan, he can be curbed. A guy like Trump, who shoots from the hip and cannot take advice is easily manipulated by somebody like Putin or any number of others who has a better grasp of the subtleties of power. The impact of that when you're talking about the United States is scary. Trump is a street fighter. He could be a good governor by using the bully pulpit to whip local people into line, and develop a cadre of .gov people with a clue. But the presidency is over his head, and his trusted advisors who were running construction projects and golf courses will drown in the federal bureaucracy.