12 ms·

Uber's Failure in Japan

170 points by jmadsen 10y ago

kizza 10y ago
I think in many countries companies like Uber and AirBnB are seen to be a challenge to the democratic will of the people. It should be no surprise that we don't care very much for this! I wonder if Uber could have achieved success in markets with more trusted governments (Germany, Japan) if they started with a softer approach.
- blisse 10y ago
  Really? I find that most people think it's the other way around, that Uber and AirBnB represent the democratic will of the people, challenging broken systems that the people do not endorse now that a better idea is available. At least, that's how it looks over in USA/Canada.
  - lathiat 10y ago
    feels that way as an Australian, also. We probably have a worse relationship with our government than the USA.
    - kizza 10y ago
      At least with Uber I think Australian governments are getting it right because even after (imo) Uber acted in bad faith by ignoring the law, ride sharing is still being legalised. I think US governments are still a bit behind, especially as Uber has been there for longer.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Now i find myself wondering if the attitudes towards government has to do with the judiciary. Meaning that common law nations may have a more adversarial attitude towards government because judicial rulings carry much more weight.
  - ben_jones 10y ago
    I've always dislike the idea that "people vote with their dollars" because theirs no way people "voted" that all their dollars go to a 1% of individuals, who strictly speaking are rarely model or even popular citizens (.i.e. the Walton family).
    - todd8 10y ago
      I'm missing your point. In the example of Walmart, individuals chose to take there business there, enriching the Walton family at the expense of other merchants. While literally not voting for the Walton family to receive their business, a large number of individuals did make the choice of doing business with the Walton family didn't they?
  - Barrin92 10y ago
    Here in Germany companies like Uber are largely perceived exactly as the author points it out, especially this stuck out in the article: >Their significant price advantage comes from the fact that they choose to ignore a great many laws and regulations that their competition must follow. Airbnb hosts routinely ignore zoning laws, hotel taxes, safety regulations and insurance requirements. Most Uber drivers do not have taxi or chauffeur licenses, obtain commercial insurance, pass safely inspections or comply with ADA regulations. In my opinion Uber is nothing but a business that makes money by shifting every responsibility that an employer should hold on the drivers who function as pseudo self-employed individuals while Uber rakes in a quick buck. A business that any nation can do without. Companies need to be able to be held reliable to regulations and standards. Uber's whole model is incompatible with this.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Then the guy next store turns his house into a flophouse, and all of the sudden AirBNB is a problem.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  I think in many countries the freedom to engage in gay sex is seen to be a challenge to the democratic will of the people. It should be no surprise that we don't care very much for this! Those of us who are less democratic and more individualistic recognize how horrible it is when democracy prevents consenting adults from engaging in harmless private activities. The tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. Also, "democratic will of the people" cannot exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theore...
  - kizza 10y ago
    One is a harmless private activity - the other is a large company gaining an unfair advantage by choosing to ignore the law. Even though they are are both about freedom I think it's impossible to compare these.
    - fennecfoxen 10y ago
      > an unfair advantage by choosing to ignore the law It's 100% okay to talk about this, but if we do talk about this, let's also talk about what happens when you get the local politicians to enshrine your particular business model in law and block all your competition from stealing your property - I mean, your customers. Is that a "fair" advantage?
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      The other is also a harmless private activity. No one is harmed when I ride an Uber to my destination. You might claim the taxi driver is harmed by me not using him, but then I might also claim that a woman who might marry the bi fellow is harmed by him being unavailable. Also, if you want to talk about things like safety regulations for taxis/Ubers, keep in mind that gay (specifically MSM, lesbians are safe of course) sex is actually super dangerous: https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/are_gays_or_guns_more_dangerous.html https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/are_gays_or_guns_mor... So if safety is a valid justification for tyranny of the majority then MSM is near the top of the list of activities to be regulated.
- DasIch 10y ago
  Uber solves a problem in the US because the US government is failing to provide adequate public transportation and fails at properly regulating taxis. In most other civilized places with governments that succeed in these areas, Uber just doesn't have product market fit. The legal problems are only producing noise.
  - aianus 10y ago
    Uber is much more efficient than taxis regardless. For one, it uses the spare time and preexisting cars of regular people (which are cheap) and two, it has the algorithms and data to pool more than one person in the same car.
    - DasIch 10y ago
      Uber is not uniquely positioned to pool multiple people in one car, to suggest otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous. Also there are no preexisting cars of regular people for Uber to take advantage of because regular people don't have adequate insurance.
      - aianus 10y ago
        > Uber is not uniquely positioned to pool multiple people in one car, to suggest otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous. Of course they are, this feature is highly dependent on network effects and Uber is the biggest player. > Also there are no preexisting cars of regular people for Uber to take advantage of because regular people don't have adequate insurance. Besides the fact that most people don't give a shit about this, Uber does provide commercial insurance for UberX drivers while they are logged in: https://www.intact.ca/uber-ride-sharing https://www.intact.ca/uber-ride-sharing
jsnathan 10y ago
The article basically states that Uber's cavalier attitude towards the law was the wrong approach to use in Japan, because the Japanese public does not respect this attitude, and that they should have worked it out with regulators before they started operations. I guess the broader lesson implied is that you need to put in the effort to understand the local culture, and adapt your strategies accordingly, before you try to enter a new country.
- zappo2938 10y ago
  The old put beet root on the cheese burger approach.
- pcr0 10y ago
  That was one half of the reason. The other being that existing taxis are good enough. A similar story is playing out in Hong Kong, even without the government cracking down as hard. There are some annoying taxi drivers, but for the most part, local taxis are cheap, fast and comfortable.
- 2bitencryption 10y ago
  That and, having taken taxis in Japan... they're honestly very decent. Much better than the taxis I've taken elsewhere. Partly because the roads are less congested, even in the heart of Tokyo, since so many take the train. I never found myself wishing I could take an Uber in Japan -- a taxi was always there when I needed it... and that was only if I wasn't near a train station, which was almost never.
  - ixtli 10y ago
    This is basically it. Japan is a very service-oriented country. People take pride in how well they interact with customers from book stores to restaurants to taxis. This interaction assumes a certain level of honesty and it really changes how you interact when you exchange money with someone for something.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    The biggest culture shock coming back to the bay area from a long Japan vacation was the taxi from the airport to a nearby hotel. The day before out return we had a driver in Tokyo who had approached it hotel from the wrong direction and had to drive around the block to get us to the front entrance. We were happy to walk half a block but he was very embarrassed and insisted to drive us to the front door and took way more off the charge than seemed reasonable and refused extra money we wanted to pay. Needless to say the car was immaculate. The taxi at SFO was filthy and the driver got grumpy as soon a we told him that we were going to a nearby hotel. He ignored both the directions from his navigation system which he claimed was broken as well as our instructions and kept missing roads leading to the hotel that he claimed he couldn't find despite it being in sight and us telling him where it is. When I protested and told him that I'm concerned about having to pay higher charges because of his obvious mistakes he insured me to not worry that he would take that off the charge. When we arrived at the hotel he took less than 10% off and got rude and insulting when I protested. Bottom line: I would not hesitate to take Japanese taxi any time even over an uber black. I can't wait for the SF taxi industry to completely collapse. Edit: There is a flip side to this though. In Japan it was obvious to me that people take pride in their work. Even people who drove taxis out clean train stations. The resulting quality of work was astonishing. However, I also got the impression that these people are give respect for their good work. I don't think many taxi drivers in the US respect their own work and society for sure doesn't make them feel respected. Respect seems to be much tighter coupled to monetary success and I can't say I'm free from that.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dasil003 10y ago
Better title would be "How Uber's Failure in Japan Can Help Multinational Corporate Expansions Everywhere". It's a bit of a stretch to still call Uber a startup, and even if you grant that, these lessons are not for startups. I happen to have co-founded a multi-national startup. The best advice I have for going multi-national as a startup is don't.
- vmarsy 10y ago
  If the start-up core product isn't something that bypasses laws, why would it be bad? Was dropbox not a startup when it went to become available outside the US? Their expansion plans didn't require offices in each country
  - mtanski 10y ago
    > If the start-up core product isn't something that bypasses laws, why would it be bad? This seams like a pretty naive rhetorical question. Regulatory burden is different in each country. Look at github problems with Russia in the past. Or Google and EU's "right to be forgotten," worse yet, local politicians that make your business model illegal. Also, culture / sales process is different in every country. VP of sales for North America is not going is going to have a hard time making a dent in Asia. The sales culture in Japan is very different from the one in China. Some places have a culture of bribery to get anything done. And you know what the SEC/FTC can go after you in the US because the money goes through a bank in the US. Now if you happen to have employees in that market place (and in some cases you're require to sell locally) you have to follow local labor which vary tremendously from country to country. Then you have local taxation laws, then you have your home countries taxation laws that deal with foreign sales. If you multiply these headaches by say 10 or 20 markets. That's something very difficult for most startups (or even mid-size companies) to tackle. > Was dropbox not a startup when it went to become available outside the US? Their expansion plans didn't require offices in each country Dropbox being a self service product over the web is not a great example. Sure that can be a replicated by some segment of SaaS companies... but there's a lot more segments out there then SasS.
- toomanybeersies 10y ago
Spooky23 10y ago
Sounds like Uber's failure in Japan is related to a reasonably honest and effective government. The biggest failure of Uber that I'm familiar with of is ex-NYC New York, and that's essentially because the Feds are tapping every politician's phone at the moment[1], and it's difficult for their lobbyists to do whatever they do to "influence" outcomes. [1][http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/state-majority-leader-dean-skelos-and-son-charged-with-corruption/ http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/state-majority-leader-dean-skel...]
- jjawssd 10y ago
  "honest and effective government" Dream on. The Yakuza simply have not been paid off.
  - mahranch 10y ago
    What is this, 1982? Japan's Yakuza hasn't been a thing since the U.S mafia was a thing. They have similar political influence these days; little to none. They've either all gone legit, gone into grey area markets (pachinko, porn, etc) or flat out folded. Many have actually gone white-collar, getting into internet start-ups and investing in the stock market. See here, "Where Have Japan's Yakuza Gone?": http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/where-have-japan-s-yakuza-gone.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/where-have-... Japan has cracked down on the Yakuza governmental/political corruption so much so, that it doesn't exist anymore. Don't get me wrong, the yakuza exists, sorta, but not in the same way they existed back in the 1970s or 80s when they ran the show. Things have changed dramatically since.
jj1bdx 10y ago
I think Uber's failure in Japan means the failures in Tokyo downtown and other large cities like Osaka. In those cities you don't have to wait much to pick the cars up. It's not the same like in SF. Discovering a niche market for Uber in Japanese large cities might be difficult.
- 2bitencryption 10y ago
  Yeah, Japan does not really have the problem that Uber is supposed to solve. At least, not to the degree that we have in the US. EDIT: however, I did see TONS of AirBnB (or the like) in Japan. Temporary housing is certainly a problem they DO have (at least in the cities)... perhaps even more than western nations...
  - jj1bdx 10y ago
    Hotels or rooms for visitors to stay is indeed in shortage nationwide, and a big problem, presumably since 2014 or so.
jrockway 10y ago
> If you’ve attended a movie in Japan ... you understand that many laws can be broken as long as everyone breaks them together. What is this referring to?
- duerrp 10y ago
  I was wondering the same thing...
apsec112 10y ago
"In fact, there is a school of thought in the West that when the fines are cheaper than the cost of compliance, it is not only OK to break that law, but that the CEO has a fiduciary duty to break the law." This claim seems absurd. Fiduciary duty is a legal concept, and for obvious reasons, there can never be a legal obligation to break the law. Americans might think it's ethically OK for corporations to break some laws. But a claim that a CEO had violated legal duties to shareholders by not breaking the law would get instantly laughed out of court.
- pyre 10y ago
  > a claim that a CEO had violated legal duties to shareholders by not breaking the law would get instantly laughed out of court I think that real issue here is that it would not get laughed out of the board room or a shareholders meeting.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    I agree. And as Slavoj Zizek is fond of saying many (most) people are ok with someone doing the dirty work for them (break the law, torture, what have you) they just don't want to explicitly be told about it. And anyway, if there's a better service to be had, that people want and are willing to pay for, screw the law, it's a high-latency side chain of authority that has built-in, but slow and political, update mechanisms, not the actual Word Of God.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
      To follow up on this, here is the full quote from Slavoj Žižek in conversation with Paul Holdengräber: Zizek: Here I’m a little bit of anti-democratic pessimist in the sense that if you really ask people, cut the bullshit, what do you really want from government, I don’t think people really want that government should not torture people and so on, the point is do it but do it discretely I don’t want to know it. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPjmmmh_os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPjmmmh_os
pnathan 10y ago
The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when I asked for a receipt for an expense report, I got a hand-scribbled note. Running credit cards often required hand-based crank mechanisms. Autoplaying TV on the back of a seat that was billed unless you explicitly opted out. It was, in short, a scammy operation designed to squeeze you in all the impolite ways, and there was nothing you could do about it. When Uber/Lyft came on the scene, it took the scam out of the taxi industry and transformed the situation into one where you had a clear understanding of the price, where you could get a clear and reasonable receipt (emailed, even!), where you could pay with a card. You get a clear idea of how long the operator will take to arrive. I had to use a taxi in St Louis, MO last summer. In order to do this I had to call the taxi company. No app, no website, nothing. It took 45 minutes to show up, period. The driver couldn't find me when he got near. I am very glad I did not miss my flight. It reminded me again of how deeply I support the "ride-sharing" services. I consider the taxicab operations to be corrupt and effectively incompetent, frequently propped up by asinine medallion systems and graft at the city level. Therefore, I refuse to use taxis if Lyft or Uber are available. I will NOT intentionally contribute one red cent to these jokers. Now, all of what the author said about Uber's flouting of the law is true. And that's not something I'm terribly happy about. But I think there's a certain value in simply ignoring bad law and fixing it on the fly. Might be the American in me, but so it goes. In any case: if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed, Uber/Lyft will not have the profound advantage it has over the taxi industry in the US.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  >if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed I've used Taxis in Japan across the country for 20+ years, can attest to its quality, reliability, and professionalism. It's on the expensive side, with rides usually starting at 700 yen (roughly 7USD) [1], but the drivers are courteous professionals who drive smoothly and know their cities and routes cold (if they don't, they'll apologize for not knowing and ask you for directions). The only downside is that sometimes the drivers are cigarette smokers. While they won't smoke inside the car, the odor can be very noticeable. [1] I believe this will be reduced to 500 yen soon.
jiqiren 10y ago
This whole argument doesn't work when you consider AirBNB. AirBNB is thriving in Japan with the same Uber playbook. The real reason for Uber's failure is public transit and taxis in Japan are amazing (and for a decent price).
brandonheato 10y ago
Taxis are about 20% (rough estimate) cheaper than Uber in Japan. That, plus the already mentioned abundance and good quality of service of taxis in Japan (as well as the ease of booking one through phone/internet/mobile apps), leaves no real reason for most people to use Uber in my opinion.
- jpatokal 10y ago
  Uber in Japan is just a routing service for regular taxis, since UberX is banned.
known 10y ago
Japanese are different from rest of the world :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency
- nattofriends 10y ago
  Technology was sourced from different companies, it just so happens that this is how they chose to deal with this problem. From your link: > In Japan, the western part of the country (Kyoto and west) uses 60 Hz and the eastern part (Tokyo and east) uses 50 Hz. This originates in the first purchases of generators from AEG in 1895, installed for Tokyo, and General Electric in 1896, installed in Osaka. The boundary between the two regions contains four back-to-back HVDC substations which convert the frequency; these are Shin Shinano, Sakuma Dam, Minami-Fukumitsu, and the Higashi-Shimizu Frequency Converter.
betadreamer 10y ago
The article has a point but didn't get it right. I'm a startup developer and my family runs a taxi business in Japan, and believe me I thought about making Uber for Japan the moment I heard about Uber, but I realized it's not going to work out. Here are my notes I jot down at that time. 1) People don't drive In US everyone drives, in fact you need one. But you see none of my friends in Japan own a car. The only people who owns one are people that are well offed. This is because owning a car in Japan is expensive (there is thing called 車検), a hassle (no parking), and getting a driver's license is long and hard. Supply is low. 2) Cash In Japan most people still carry cash. Their preferred method of payments (in order) are: cash, Suica (debit card for train), and then credit card tied with NFC in phone that charges your phone bill. So Taxis are more convenient than Uber. 3) Part-time jobs are everywhere You see it's very easy to get a part-time jobs. In fact most college students are doing it all the time. In US Uber looks attractive "I can drive and make money!", but in Japan it is "I just have to go to that place that dispatch part-time jobs and will make money". 4) Zoning This is a bit similar to what the article talks about but in a different perspective. Don't forget that Japan fits in California. Each city have its own law and you need to pay a lot for each zone. My family operates in one district and have 2 competitors. Other district have its own. Each city have its own market and demand. You can't even pilot in a small region because if you drive 15 minutes you are already in another district, which you are not allowed to pickup. These zoning are strict, and japanese people know about it. It existed from the day yakuza used it as protection fees. 5) Anybody can be a taxi driver You see its not hard to be a taxi driver if you really want to be one. These are called 個人タクシー and can operate on your own.
- mkagenius 10y ago
  All the points are from the supply side. Maybe Japan will welcome a uber which drives itself?
  - mantas 10y ago
    Preferring cash payments and taxes already being good enough is not supply side. Once self-driving taxis are available, they won't be uber exclusive. More likely all taxis will become self driving. If uber wasn't in the market before, it won't become welcome just because. In addition to that, part of taxis service is human powered. Like helping you get luggage in a trunk and providing local knowledge. A taxi driver in Japan once told me they make most by driving old people from grocery stores back home. Will self driving car have a robot helping them with the bags?
sergers 10y ago
Uber and other type apps are successful disrupting traditional taxi services where a heafty price tag is on medallions. Where countries like Japan who do not have a medallion system really, there is not much to drive prices up for taxi fares for Uber and like to undercut to be successful. A good taxi and transit system isnt everything... I live near YVR, we have taxis lined up at YVR for convenience. You are also paying way more cause first, the taxi medallions are so expensive... Then there additional fees for being licensed to do pickups at YVR in the designated area. Everyone I know who commutes via taxi or transit wishes Uber types were here (banned). Especially when u fly to DFW and the only options for a taxi is a broken minivan 20 mins later. And then Uber being less than half and a lot quicker. Convenience and cost. If Japan has those covered, then no reason for a Uber type to be operating there
- nattofriends 10y ago
  I don't know about the details of constraining supply (medallion system), but taxis in Japan are not cheap. In Tokyo, they start at about 7 USD.
riotdash 10y ago
Uber may be fighting against the law, but when the government does not respect the democratic will of the people, it is actually ok and in the long run will benefit all. I'm based in Helsinki, Finland and Shanghai, China (50/50). Two very different countries in all aspects. In both countries government used to regulate taxis and today China does not anymore but Finland still does. In Finland taxis are very new (BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Tesla etc.) and expensive (supported with tax payers money) and they are REALLY expensive to take. Way too expensive. This may sound ridiculous, but in my home town (major Finnish city) during the weekends it was common for people to walk home 7-10km after the night out, because taxis are so expensive. They are not seen as normal transportation service but instead more as a luxury service that you have to carefully consider before taking. They are still very safe, clean, have their own Uber-like app etc. Finns have demanded many many years (long before Uber) for the taxi-monopoly to be destroyed, but the government has happily turned a blind eye to them. Ubers in Finland are usually Toyotas or Volkswagens, quite new and clean. Prices are only 50-60% of traditional taxis. So what about China? Taxis are old/medium-level volkswagens, little dirty, driver may be smoking inside the car, quite safe but there are many people playing with the meter or overcharging in some other ways. Some drivers are also really greedy and arrogant: They may ask you where are you going before letting you into the car and if they don't like the route they'll not take you. Anyway they are relatively affordable for average people in China. When Uber and it's Chinese competitor DiDi came to the market, the government was confused at first but later legalized them when they realized that competition will benefit all in the long run. Now? Uber and Didi are extremely popular, significantly cheaper than traditional taxis, clean, safe and no more people have to worry about getting bullshitted with the cab fare. So once again Uber made things better for all. Sometimes breaking the law in not only acceptable, but required for a greater good and change to happen. In Finland however it might take a while since the government is still living in their 1950s mentality and currently hunting down Uber drivers and suing them. Some might say it's wrong that Uber is putting all the responsibility on the driver. You know what? It's not. They know what they are signing up for and besides if Uber as a company was responsible for every single incident all over the world in every country, the company wouldn't exist anymore. No investor money could cover all those fines. The current way is the only way Uber can exist and only way the change can happen.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
unicornporn 10y ago
You know what, it's not going super well here in Sweden either. Can't say I'm sorry about that. There are some things I'd rather not "disrupt", one of these things is basic workers rights. I'd like to see Uber as masters of gamification. They've successfully gamified fast money, and screwing yourself (but perhaps mostly others) over in the long haul.
blockshock 10y ago
In Japan, taxi services fall into broadly 2 categories, - large to mid size fleets 2000+ and - private 'kojin' taxis There is yet another category commonly referred to 'izakaya' taxi, these are also private taxis who work together as a network to compete with the big players. Things to know * all taxis are clean * some are spotless ie washed every morning * 75%+ are equipped with wireless radio * 90% of cars in general in japan have gps, so it should not come as a huge suprise to see taxis who have 2 units. * Most of the big fleets accept every credit card under the sun including certain cards from some processors not too popular elsewhere (JCB). Some accept nfc 'type' payments from several different incompatible processors. * In the good old days 90s - you could call a cab company and they would radio (motorola) a taxi to your location. Now the big companies have apps developed by 3rd party vendors which support points for free rides etc. People in Tokyo prefer the subway because its quicker in most cases- So you are left with * people use cabs to get from pt a to pt b by making an on the spur of the moment decision. i see a cab i jump in. Uber would have a problem unless the fleet was huge from the get go. * other people who 'plan' and use a cab can easily call one of the established players. Addresses are fairly resonably defined in tokyo and gps kits are excellect after having being engineered for 10+ years. Uber would have a problem because their software is not adding any value to what incubments are offering * then there is this segment of people who use taxis for everything- thats where the izakaya taxis come in. They provide a first class experience using luxury grade cars (think lexus++) that are able to handle the longer distance rides, they might offer you a beer, tea etc. This is a premium service, you call the cab and he has you registered if youve used hiw before so he knows you by name. If hes busy enroute with another customer, he will just route you to his buddy. They mostly have 2 smart phones to help with this and they do this while driving with off the shelf apps well configured. All factored in Uber's traditional model is challenged. But Uber hopefully has deep pockets, they should start by buying a small fleet and focus on certain/towns.
- new299 10y ago
  I don't understand where this notion that 90%+ of taxis in Japan have GPS comes from. I can only think it's from people how hang out in central Tokyo. Even at the main Shinkansen station in Osaka, there's a 50% probability that a taxi driver wont have (or wont know how to use) a GPS. I've regularly had taxi drivers dig out dogeared maps to try and figure out where I want to go. If you give an taxi driver and address, they often take you to the general location and then need help from there.
noir_lord 10y ago
About 5 years ago we had a new taxi firm open in my home town, the boss(es) invested heavily in technology, you could book via a text, app or call. They had a ruthless focus on clean cars, uniformed drivers (I was talking to one of the drivers, if they where not clean and presentable he wouldn't put them in service), they'd even jump out and help you load your shopping etc. You got a text with the drivers number and plate number and could even set it up so someone else got the same details (handy for parents, partners etc). He absolutely decimated the local badly run taxi firms, the good drivers moved to him and the other firms had to run to catch up or die out. It was fascinating to watch as an outsider the change across the whole city once word got out.
hunvreus 10y ago
If you're interested in this topic, I'd recommend this great explanation of why Uber lost to Didi in China: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Didi-beat-Uber-in-China/answer/Wang-Di-8?srid=p6yy https://www.quora.com/How-did-Didi-beat-Uber-in-China/answer... There are ultimately many reasons why US startups fail in some Asian markets (including China and Japan), and it can't be reduced to cultural differences or protective regulations.
ertigen 10y ago
Cool
wruza 10y ago
Uber is just a management that controls bunch of small entities providing a service. You can hate it or feel envy, but actually there are millions of companies with bad and foolish management that cannot even do their service at all. I hope someday I'll see the company that will act as an umbrella to all service companies out there, and will filter out all those pretending fools unable to clean my carpet, install new furniture or repair pc. I'm really tired of this local 'legal market'. I need it done, not legal.
yashap 10y ago
Good article, but I think the author understates a bit how hard it is for ANY foreign tech company to do well in Japan. You can almost always take your American business, apply it as-is (with some decent translation/localization) to major European markets, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, even South America, and so pretty well in most cases. Try the same in Japan, though, and you'll generally fail. It's a wildly different culture in so many different ways, and there are tonnes of local competitors who are likely in your niche, but specifically targeting Japan, with an intimate knowledge of Japanese culture. The few foreign tech companies that have done well in Japan basically have a separate business and product just for Japan, like Yahoo Japan. If you're thinking about investing significantly into entering Japan as an American tech company, you probably shouldn't, unless you're willing to invest HUGE resources into it (and even then, it's a massive gamble).
pixelbash 10y ago
Personal anecdote, we flew into Narita and the customs line caused us to miss the bus that would have connected us to Haneda for our next flight. We were certain we would miss the flight, but instead we got one of the best taxi drivers I've ever met. From what I gathered, in Japan you basically pay a set fine for travelling over a certain speed. So he added that into the fare (vaguely recall it was 15% or so). Long story short, after some very impressive driving we got there in time. I gained a massive appreciation for Japanese taxi drivers that day.

170 points by jmadsen 10y ago

kizza 10y ago

I think in many countries companies like Uber and AirBnB are seen to be a challenge to the democratic will of the people. It should be no surprise that we don't care very much for this! I wonder if Uber could have achieved success in markets with more trusted governments (Germany, Japan) if they started with a softer approach.

blisse 10y ago
Really? I find that most people think it's the other way around, that Uber and AirBnB represent the democratic will of the people, challenging broken systems that the people do not endorse now that a better idea is available. At least, that's how it looks over in USA/Canada.
- lathiat 10y ago
  feels that way as an Australian, also. We probably have a worse relationship with our government than the USA.
  - kizza 10y ago
    At least with Uber I think Australian governments are getting it right because even after (imo) Uber acted in bad faith by ignoring the law, ride sharing is still being legalised. I think US governments are still a bit behind, especially as Uber has been there for longer.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Now i find myself wondering if the attitudes towards government has to do with the judiciary. Meaning that common law nations may have a more adversarial attitude towards government because judicial rulings carry much more weight.
- ben_jones 10y ago
  I've always dislike the idea that "people vote with their dollars" because theirs no way people "voted" that all their dollars go to a 1% of individuals, who strictly speaking are rarely model or even popular citizens (.i.e. the Walton family).
  - todd8 10y ago
    I'm missing your point. In the example of Walmart, individuals chose to take there business there, enriching the Walton family at the expense of other merchants. While literally not voting for the Walton family to receive their business, a large number of individuals did make the choice of doing business with the Walton family didn't they?
- Barrin92 10y ago
  Here in Germany companies like Uber are largely perceived exactly as the author points it out, especially this stuck out in the article: >Their significant price advantage comes from the fact that they choose to ignore a great many laws and regulations that their competition must follow. Airbnb hosts routinely ignore zoning laws, hotel taxes, safety regulations and insurance requirements. Most Uber drivers do not have taxi or chauffeur licenses, obtain commercial insurance, pass safely inspections or comply with ADA regulations. In my opinion Uber is nothing but a business that makes money by shifting every responsibility that an employer should hold on the drivers who function as pseudo self-employed individuals while Uber rakes in a quick buck. A business that any nation can do without. Companies need to be able to be held reliable to regulations and standards. Uber's whole model is incompatible with this.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Then the guy next store turns his house into a flophouse, and all of the sudden AirBNB is a problem.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
I think in many countries the freedom to engage in gay sex is seen to be a challenge to the democratic will of the people. It should be no surprise that we don't care very much for this! Those of us who are less democratic and more individualistic recognize how horrible it is when democracy prevents consenting adults from engaging in harmless private activities. The tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. Also, "democratic will of the people" cannot exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theore...
- kizza 10y ago
  One is a harmless private activity - the other is a large company gaining an unfair advantage by choosing to ignore the law. Even though they are are both about freedom I think it's impossible to compare these.
  - fennecfoxen 10y ago
    > an unfair advantage by choosing to ignore the law It's 100% okay to talk about this, but if we do talk about this, let's also talk about what happens when you get the local politicians to enshrine your particular business model in law and block all your competition from stealing your property - I mean, your customers. Is that a "fair" advantage?
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    The other is also a harmless private activity. No one is harmed when I ride an Uber to my destination. You might claim the taxi driver is harmed by me not using him, but then I might also claim that a woman who might marry the bi fellow is harmed by him being unavailable. Also, if you want to talk about things like safety regulations for taxis/Ubers, keep in mind that gay (specifically MSM, lesbians are safe of course) sex is actually super dangerous: https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/are_gays_or_guns_more_dangerous.html https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/are_gays_or_guns_mor... So if safety is a valid justification for tyranny of the majority then MSM is near the top of the list of activities to be regulated.
DasIch 10y ago
Uber solves a problem in the US because the US government is failing to provide adequate public transportation and fails at properly regulating taxis. In most other civilized places with governments that succeed in these areas, Uber just doesn't have product market fit. The legal problems are only producing noise.
- aianus 10y ago
  Uber is much more efficient than taxis regardless. For one, it uses the spare time and preexisting cars of regular people (which are cheap) and two, it has the algorithms and data to pool more than one person in the same car.
  - DasIch 10y ago
    Uber is not uniquely positioned to pool multiple people in one car, to suggest otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous. Also there are no preexisting cars of regular people for Uber to take advantage of because regular people don't have adequate insurance.
    - aianus 10y ago
      > Uber is not uniquely positioned to pool multiple people in one car, to suggest otherwise is quite frankly ridiculous. Of course they are, this feature is highly dependent on network effects and Uber is the biggest player. > Also there are no preexisting cars of regular people for Uber to take advantage of because regular people don't have adequate insurance. Besides the fact that most people don't give a shit about this, Uber does provide commercial insurance for UberX drivers while they are logged in: https://www.intact.ca/uber-ride-sharing https://www.intact.ca/uber-ride-sharing

jsnathan 10y ago

The article basically states that Uber's cavalier attitude towards the law was the wrong approach to use in Japan, because the Japanese public does not respect this attitude, and that they should have worked it out with regulators before they started operations. I guess the broader lesson implied is that you need to put in the effort to understand the local culture, and adapt your strategies accordingly, before you try to enter a new country.

zappo2938 10y ago
The old put beet root on the cheese burger approach.
pcr0 10y ago
That was one half of the reason. The other being that existing taxis are good enough. A similar story is playing out in Hong Kong, even without the government cracking down as hard. There are some annoying taxi drivers, but for the most part, local taxis are cheap, fast and comfortable.
2bitencryption 10y ago
That and, having taken taxis in Japan... they're honestly very decent. Much better than the taxis I've taken elsewhere. Partly because the roads are less congested, even in the heart of Tokyo, since so many take the train. I never found myself wishing I could take an Uber in Japan -- a taxi was always there when I needed it... and that was only if I wasn't near a train station, which was almost never.
- ixtli 10y ago
  This is basically it. Japan is a very service-oriented country. People take pride in how well they interact with customers from book stores to restaurants to taxis. This interaction assumes a certain level of honesty and it really changes how you interact when you exchange money with someone for something.
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  The biggest culture shock coming back to the bay area from a long Japan vacation was the taxi from the airport to a nearby hotel. The day before out return we had a driver in Tokyo who had approached it hotel from the wrong direction and had to drive around the block to get us to the front entrance. We were happy to walk half a block but he was very embarrassed and insisted to drive us to the front door and took way more off the charge than seemed reasonable and refused extra money we wanted to pay. Needless to say the car was immaculate. The taxi at SFO was filthy and the driver got grumpy as soon a we told him that we were going to a nearby hotel. He ignored both the directions from his navigation system which he claimed was broken as well as our instructions and kept missing roads leading to the hotel that he claimed he couldn't find despite it being in sight and us telling him where it is. When I protested and told him that I'm concerned about having to pay higher charges because of his obvious mistakes he insured me to not worry that he would take that off the charge. When we arrived at the hotel he took less than 10% off and got rude and insulting when I protested. Bottom line: I would not hesitate to take Japanese taxi any time even over an uber black. I can't wait for the SF taxi industry to completely collapse. Edit: There is a flip side to this though. In Japan it was obvious to me that people take pride in their work. Even people who drove taxis out clean train stations. The resulting quality of work was astonishing. However, I also got the impression that these people are give respect for their good work. I don't think many taxi drivers in the US respect their own work and society for sure doesn't make them feel respected. Respect seems to be much tighter coupled to monetary success and I can't say I'm free from that.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

dasil003 10y ago

Better title would be "How Uber's Failure in Japan Can Help Multinational Corporate Expansions Everywhere". It's a bit of a stretch to still call Uber a startup, and even if you grant that, these lessons are not for startups. I happen to have co-founded a multi-national startup. The best advice I have for going multi-national as a startup is don't.

vmarsy 10y ago
If the start-up core product isn't something that bypasses laws, why would it be bad? Was dropbox not a startup when it went to become available outside the US? Their expansion plans didn't require offices in each country
- mtanski 10y ago
  > If the start-up core product isn't something that bypasses laws, why would it be bad? This seams like a pretty naive rhetorical question. Regulatory burden is different in each country. Look at github problems with Russia in the past. Or Google and EU's "right to be forgotten," worse yet, local politicians that make your business model illegal. Also, culture / sales process is different in every country. VP of sales for North America is not going is going to have a hard time making a dent in Asia. The sales culture in Japan is very different from the one in China. Some places have a culture of bribery to get anything done. And you know what the SEC/FTC can go after you in the US because the money goes through a bank in the US. Now if you happen to have employees in that market place (and in some cases you're require to sell locally) you have to follow local labor which vary tremendously from country to country. Then you have local taxation laws, then you have your home countries taxation laws that deal with foreign sales. If you multiply these headaches by say 10 or 20 markets. That's something very difficult for most startups (or even mid-size companies) to tackle. > Was dropbox not a startup when it went to become available outside the US? Their expansion plans didn't require offices in each country Dropbox being a self service product over the web is not a great example. Sure that can be a replicated by some segment of SaaS companies... but there's a lot more segments out there then SasS.
toomanybeersies 10y ago

Spooky23 10y ago

Sounds like Uber's failure in Japan is related to a reasonably honest and effective government. The biggest failure of Uber that I'm familiar with of is ex-NYC New York, and that's essentially because the Feds are tapping every politician's phone at the moment[1], and it's difficult for their lobbyists to do whatever they do to "influence" outcomes. [1][http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/state-majority-leader-dean-skelos-and-son-charged-with-corruption/ http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/state-majority-leader-dean-skel...]

jjawssd 10y ago
"honest and effective government" Dream on. The Yakuza simply have not been paid off.
- mahranch 10y ago
  What is this, 1982? Japan's Yakuza hasn't been a thing since the U.S mafia was a thing. They have similar political influence these days; little to none. They've either all gone legit, gone into grey area markets (pachinko, porn, etc) or flat out folded. Many have actually gone white-collar, getting into internet start-ups and investing in the stock market. See here, "Where Have Japan's Yakuza Gone?": http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/where-have-japan-s-yakuza-gone.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/where-have-... Japan has cracked down on the Yakuza governmental/political corruption so much so, that it doesn't exist anymore. Don't get me wrong, the yakuza exists, sorta, but not in the same way they existed back in the 1970s or 80s when they ran the show. Things have changed dramatically since.

jj1bdx 10y ago

I think Uber's failure in Japan means the failures in Tokyo downtown and other large cities like Osaka. In those cities you don't have to wait much to pick the cars up. It's not the same like in SF. Discovering a niche market for Uber in Japanese large cities might be difficult.

2bitencryption 10y ago
Yeah, Japan does not really have the problem that Uber is supposed to solve. At least, not to the degree that we have in the US. EDIT: however, I did see TONS of AirBnB (or the like) in Japan. Temporary housing is certainly a problem they DO have (at least in the cities)... perhaps even more than western nations...
- jj1bdx 10y ago
  Hotels or rooms for visitors to stay is indeed in shortage nationwide, and a big problem, presumably since 2014 or so.

jrockway 10y ago

> If you’ve attended a movie in Japan ... you understand that many laws can be broken as long as everyone breaks them together. What is this referring to?

duerrp 10y ago
I was wondering the same thing...

apsec112 10y ago

"In fact, there is a school of thought in the West that when the fines are cheaper than the cost of compliance, it is not only OK to break that law, but that the CEO has a fiduciary duty to break the law." This claim seems absurd. Fiduciary duty is a legal concept, and for obvious reasons, there can never be a legal obligation to break the law. Americans might think it's ethically OK for corporations to break some laws. But a claim that a CEO had violated legal duties to shareholders by not breaking the law would get instantly laughed out of court.

pyre 10y ago
> a claim that a CEO had violated legal duties to shareholders by not breaking the law would get instantly laughed out of court I think that real issue here is that it would not get laughed out of the board room or a shareholders meeting.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  I agree. And as Slavoj Zizek is fond of saying many (most) people are ok with someone doing the dirty work for them (break the law, torture, what have you) they just don't want to explicitly be told about it. And anyway, if there's a better service to be had, that people want and are willing to pay for, screw the law, it's a high-latency side chain of authority that has built-in, but slow and political, update mechanisms, not the actual Word Of God.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    To follow up on this, here is the full quote from Slavoj Žižek in conversation with Paul Holdengräber: Zizek: Here I’m a little bit of anti-democratic pessimist in the sense that if you really ask people, cut the bullshit, what do you really want from government, I don’t think people really want that government should not torture people and so on, the point is do it but do it discretely I don’t want to know it. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPjmmmh_os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPjmmmh_os

pnathan 10y ago

The advantage of Uber has nothing to do with price and everything to do with grotesque incompetence on the part of the taxi operators. Five-six years ago, when I asked for a receipt for an expense report, I got a hand-scribbled note. Running credit cards often required hand-based crank mechanisms. Autoplaying TV on the back of a seat that was billed unless you explicitly opted out. It was, in short, a scammy operation designed to squeeze you in all the impolite ways, and there was nothing you could do about it. When Uber/Lyft came on the scene, it took the scam out of the taxi industry and transformed the situation into one where you had a clear understanding of the price, where you could get a clear and reasonable receipt (emailed, even!), where you could pay with a card. You get a clear idea of how long the operator will take to arrive. I had to use a taxi in St Louis, MO last summer. In order to do this I had to call the taxi company. No app, no website, nothing. It took 45 minutes to show up, period. The driver couldn't find me when he got near. I am very glad I did not miss my flight. It reminded me again of how deeply I support the "ride-sharing" services. I consider the taxicab operations to be corrupt and effectively incompetent, frequently propped up by asinine medallion systems and graft at the city level. Therefore, I refuse to use taxis if Lyft or Uber are available. I will NOT intentionally contribute one red cent to these jokers. Now, all of what the author said about Uber's flouting of the law is true. And that's not something I'm terribly happy about. But I think there's a certain value in simply ignoring bad law and fixing it on the fly. Might be the American in me, but so it goes. In any case: if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed, Uber/Lyft will not have the profound advantage it has over the taxi industry in the US.

hkmurakami 10y ago
>if the taxi industry in Japan is honest, competent and well executed I've used Taxis in Japan across the country for 20+ years, can attest to its quality, reliability, and professionalism. It's on the expensive side, with rides usually starting at 700 yen (roughly 7USD) [1], but the drivers are courteous professionals who drive smoothly and know their cities and routes cold (if they don't, they'll apologize for not knowing and ask you for directions). The only downside is that sometimes the drivers are cigarette smokers. While they won't smoke inside the car, the odor can be very noticeable. [1] I believe this will be reduced to 500 yen soon.

jiqiren 10y ago

This whole argument doesn't work when you consider AirBNB. AirBNB is thriving in Japan with the same Uber playbook. The real reason for Uber's failure is public transit and taxis in Japan are amazing (and for a decent price).

brandonheato 10y ago

Taxis are about 20% (rough estimate) cheaper than Uber in Japan. That, plus the already mentioned abundance and good quality of service of taxis in Japan (as well as the ease of booking one through phone/internet/mobile apps), leaves no real reason for most people to use Uber in my opinion.

jpatokal 10y ago
Uber in Japan is just a routing service for regular taxis, since UberX is banned.

known 10y ago

Japanese are different from rest of the world :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency

nattofriends 10y ago
Technology was sourced from different companies, it just so happens that this is how they chose to deal with this problem. From your link: > In Japan, the western part of the country (Kyoto and west) uses 60 Hz and the eastern part (Tokyo and east) uses 50 Hz. This originates in the first purchases of generators from AEG in 1895, installed for Tokyo, and General Electric in 1896, installed in Osaka. The boundary between the two regions contains four back-to-back HVDC substations which convert the frequency; these are Shin Shinano, Sakuma Dam, Minami-Fukumitsu, and the Higashi-Shimizu Frequency Converter.

betadreamer 10y ago

The article has a point but didn't get it right. I'm a startup developer and my family runs a taxi business in Japan, and believe me I thought about making Uber for Japan the moment I heard about Uber, but I realized it's not going to work out. Here are my notes I jot down at that time. 1) People don't drive In US everyone drives, in fact you need one. But you see none of my friends in Japan own a car. The only people who owns one are people that are well offed. This is because owning a car in Japan is expensive (there is thing called 車検), a hassle (no parking), and getting a driver's license is long and hard. Supply is low. 2) Cash In Japan most people still carry cash. Their preferred method of payments (in order) are: cash, Suica (debit card for train), and then credit card tied with NFC in phone that charges your phone bill. So Taxis are more convenient than Uber. 3) Part-time jobs are everywhere You see it's very easy to get a part-time jobs. In fact most college students are doing it all the time. In US Uber looks attractive "I can drive and make money!", but in Japan it is "I just have to go to that place that dispatch part-time jobs and will make money". 4) Zoning This is a bit similar to what the article talks about but in a different perspective. Don't forget that Japan fits in California. Each city have its own law and you need to pay a lot for each zone. My family operates in one district and have 2 competitors. Other district have its own. Each city have its own market and demand. You can't even pilot in a small region because if you drive 15 minutes you are already in another district, which you are not allowed to pickup. These zoning are strict, and japanese people know about it. It existed from the day yakuza used it as protection fees. 5) Anybody can be a taxi driver You see its not hard to be a taxi driver if you really want to be one. These are called 個人タクシー and can operate on your own.

mkagenius 10y ago
All the points are from the supply side. Maybe Japan will welcome a uber which drives itself?
- mantas 10y ago
  Preferring cash payments and taxes already being good enough is not supply side. Once self-driving taxis are available, they won't be uber exclusive. More likely all taxis will become self driving. If uber wasn't in the market before, it won't become welcome just because. In addition to that, part of taxis service is human powered. Like helping you get luggage in a trunk and providing local knowledge. A taxi driver in Japan once told me they make most by driving old people from grocery stores back home. Will self driving car have a robot helping them with the bags?

sergers 10y ago

Uber and other type apps are successful disrupting traditional taxi services where a heafty price tag is on medallions. Where countries like Japan who do not have a medallion system really, there is not much to drive prices up for taxi fares for Uber and like to undercut to be successful. A good taxi and transit system isnt everything... I live near YVR, we have taxis lined up at YVR for convenience. You are also paying way more cause first, the taxi medallions are so expensive... Then there additional fees for being licensed to do pickups at YVR in the designated area. Everyone I know who commutes via taxi or transit wishes Uber types were here (banned). Especially when u fly to DFW and the only options for a taxi is a broken minivan 20 mins later. And then Uber being less than half and a lot quicker. Convenience and cost. If Japan has those covered, then no reason for a Uber type to be operating there

nattofriends 10y ago
I don't know about the details of constraining supply (medallion system), but taxis in Japan are not cheap. In Tokyo, they start at about 7 USD.

riotdash 10y ago

Uber may be fighting against the law, but when the government does not respect the democratic will of the people, it is actually ok and in the long run will benefit all. I'm based in Helsinki, Finland and Shanghai, China (50/50). Two very different countries in all aspects. In both countries government used to regulate taxis and today China does not anymore but Finland still does. In Finland taxis are very new (BMW, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Tesla etc.) and expensive (supported with tax payers money) and they are REALLY expensive to take. Way too expensive. This may sound ridiculous, but in my home town (major Finnish city) during the weekends it was common for people to walk home 7-10km after the night out, because taxis are so expensive. They are not seen as normal transportation service but instead more as a luxury service that you have to carefully consider before taking. They are still very safe, clean, have their own Uber-like app etc. Finns have demanded many many years (long before Uber) for the taxi-monopoly to be destroyed, but the government has happily turned a blind eye to them. Ubers in Finland are usually Toyotas or Volkswagens, quite new and clean. Prices are only 50-60% of traditional taxis. So what about China? Taxis are old/medium-level volkswagens, little dirty, driver may be smoking inside the car, quite safe but there are many people playing with the meter or overcharging in some other ways. Some drivers are also really greedy and arrogant: They may ask you where are you going before letting you into the car and if they don't like the route they'll not take you. Anyway they are relatively affordable for average people in China. When Uber and it's Chinese competitor DiDi came to the market, the government was confused at first but later legalized them when they realized that competition will benefit all in the long run. Now? Uber and Didi are extremely popular, significantly cheaper than traditional taxis, clean, safe and no more people have to worry about getting bullshitted with the cab fare. So once again Uber made things better for all. Sometimes breaking the law in not only acceptable, but required for a greater good and change to happen. In Finland however it might take a while since the government is still living in their 1950s mentality and currently hunting down Uber drivers and suing them. Some might say it's wrong that Uber is putting all the responsibility on the driver. You know what? It's not. They know what they are signing up for and besides if Uber as a company was responsible for every single incident all over the world in every country, the company wouldn't exist anymore. No investor money could cover all those fines. The current way is the only way Uber can exist and only way the change can happen.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

unicornporn 10y ago

You know what, it's not going super well here in Sweden either. Can't say I'm sorry about that. There are some things I'd rather not "disrupt", one of these things is basic workers rights. I'd like to see Uber as masters of gamification. They've successfully gamified fast money, and screwing yourself (but perhaps mostly others) over in the long haul.

blockshock 10y ago

In Japan, taxi services fall into broadly 2 categories, - large to mid size fleets 2000+ and - private 'kojin' taxis There is yet another category commonly referred to 'izakaya' taxi, these are also private taxis who work together as a network to compete with the big players. Things to know * all taxis are clean * some are spotless ie washed every morning * 75%+ are equipped with wireless radio * 90% of cars in general in japan have gps, so it should not come as a huge suprise to see taxis who have 2 units. * Most of the big fleets accept every credit card under the sun including certain cards from some processors not too popular elsewhere (JCB). Some accept nfc 'type' payments from several different incompatible processors. * In the good old days 90s - you could call a cab company and they would radio (motorola) a taxi to your location. Now the big companies have apps developed by 3rd party vendors which support points for free rides etc. People in Tokyo prefer the subway because its quicker in most cases- So you are left with * people use cabs to get from pt a to pt b by making an on the spur of the moment decision. i see a cab i jump in. Uber would have a problem unless the fleet was huge from the get go. * other people who 'plan' and use a cab can easily call one of the established players. Addresses are fairly resonably defined in tokyo and gps kits are excellect after having being engineered for 10+ years. Uber would have a problem because their software is not adding any value to what incubments are offering * then there is this segment of people who use taxis for everything- thats where the izakaya taxis come in. They provide a first class experience using luxury grade cars (think lexus++) that are able to handle the longer distance rides, they might offer you a beer, tea etc. This is a premium service, you call the cab and he has you registered if youve used hiw before so he knows you by name. If hes busy enroute with another customer, he will just route you to his buddy. They mostly have 2 smart phones to help with this and they do this while driving with off the shelf apps well configured. All factored in Uber's traditional model is challenged. But Uber hopefully has deep pockets, they should start by buying a small fleet and focus on certain/towns.

new299 10y ago
I don't understand where this notion that 90%+ of taxis in Japan have GPS comes from. I can only think it's from people how hang out in central Tokyo. Even at the main Shinkansen station in Osaka, there's a 50% probability that a taxi driver wont have (or wont know how to use) a GPS. I've regularly had taxi drivers dig out dogeared maps to try and figure out where I want to go. If you give an taxi driver and address, they often take you to the general location and then need help from there.

noir_lord 10y ago

About 5 years ago we had a new taxi firm open in my home town, the boss(es) invested heavily in technology, you could book via a text, app or call. They had a ruthless focus on clean cars, uniformed drivers (I was talking to one of the drivers, if they where not clean and presentable he wouldn't put them in service), they'd even jump out and help you load your shopping etc. You got a text with the drivers number and plate number and could even set it up so someone else got the same details (handy for parents, partners etc). He absolutely decimated the local badly run taxi firms, the good drivers moved to him and the other firms had to run to catch up or die out. It was fascinating to watch as an outsider the change across the whole city once word got out.

hunvreus 10y ago

If you're interested in this topic, I'd recommend this great explanation of why Uber lost to Didi in China: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Didi-beat-Uber-in-China/answer/Wang-Di-8?srid=p6yy https://www.quora.com/How-did-Didi-beat-Uber-in-China/answer... There are ultimately many reasons why US startups fail in some Asian markets (including China and Japan), and it can't be reduced to cultural differences or protective regulations.

ertigen 10y ago

Cool

wruza 10y ago

Uber is just a management that controls bunch of small entities providing a service. You can hate it or feel envy, but actually there are millions of companies with bad and foolish management that cannot even do their service at all. I hope someday I'll see the company that will act as an umbrella to all service companies out there, and will filter out all those pretending fools unable to clean my carpet, install new furniture or repair pc. I'm really tired of this local 'legal market'. I need it done, not legal.

yashap 10y ago

Good article, but I think the author understates a bit how hard it is for ANY foreign tech company to do well in Japan. You can almost always take your American business, apply it as-is (with some decent translation/localization) to major European markets, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, even South America, and so pretty well in most cases. Try the same in Japan, though, and you'll generally fail. It's a wildly different culture in so many different ways, and there are tonnes of local competitors who are likely in your niche, but specifically targeting Japan, with an intimate knowledge of Japanese culture. The few foreign tech companies that have done well in Japan basically have a separate business and product just for Japan, like Yahoo Japan. If you're thinking about investing significantly into entering Japan as an American tech company, you probably shouldn't, unless you're willing to invest HUGE resources into it (and even then, it's a massive gamble).

pixelbash 10y ago

Personal anecdote, we flew into Narita and the customs line caused us to miss the bus that would have connected us to Haneda for our next flight. We were certain we would miss the flight, but instead we got one of the best taxi drivers I've ever met. From what I gathered, in Japan you basically pay a set fine for travelling over a certain speed. So he added that into the fare (vaguely recall it was 15% or so). Long story short, after some very impressive driving we got there in time. I gained a massive appreciation for Japanese taxi drivers that day.