7 ms·

33K for a single company ? We want to benefit from ideas from talented architects, doctors, scientists or engineers that contribute a diverse set of approaches

by huherto 10y ago

33K for a single company ? We want to benefit from ideas from talented architects, doctors, scientists or engineers that contribute a diverse set of approaches to solve our problems. As it is now, we are only bringing IT professionals from a handful of countries. It is just a source of cheap skilled labor with little synergic value.

samfisher83 10y ago
Well google average salary is 127k. I don't think that includes rsu, bonus, etc. So I would say the salary is on par with what they are paying Americans. If you compare the H1-B to GC ratio its pretty close.
- huherto 10y ago
  Google is clearly not the problem. They have 4k H1B but they also have 60k USA employees.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    Most large software companies are not the problem - they actually do use H1B the way it's intended, i.e. to supplement their work force when local talent is unavailable on short notice; and they offer equal pay for equal work. They also normally sponsor their H1B employees for green cards as soon as they're eligible, so we're not talking temp workers here, so much so as a skilled immigration stream. (Disclosure: I was an H1B worker before, so this is based on personal and anecdotal experience.) Places like Infosys and Tata are the problem. That's where H1B is milked for cheap labor, and where all those legal schemes to lower the salary as much as possible are heavily used. So far as I know, most workers that they hire do not get green cards, either. Problem is, the latter group is responsible for most H1B applications.
- vostok 10y ago
  I think Google would pay more than they do now if the H1B program did not exist or if visas were given to people with the highest salaries rather than randomly assigned.
- mycodebreaks 10y ago
  Apple is 136k, Facebook above 140k, Google 127k, Microsoft is above 120k.. so, these companies and many others which are paying in above ranges aren't violators.
c_lebesgue 10y ago
As someone who got "rejected" in the H1B random lottery - yes, the system needs an overhaul. Perhaps an auction system would be appropriate, where companies bid on visas, then top N bidders get visas from the pool, paying the lowest winning price. This would also work well with the idea that companies should first seek talent within the United States. The auction final quote would be a clear, publicly available portion of the costs of getting employees abroad. The only caveat I see is potential employment contract clauses forcing employees to stay in the company for a certain number of years. Currently there are no restrictions for switching jobs on an H1B.
- serge2k 10y ago
  I had a friend who got rejected twice, had to leave the country. He's a good software engineer for one of the big companies. Fortunately they kept him on and I guess they will try to get him an L1 once he meets the requirements.
- ones_and_zeros 10y ago
  Where N becomes a political football that us raised and lowered at the whim of lobbyists ultimately allowing wages to fall below market rates. There is no labor shortage in a nation of 300 million with the best university system in the history of humanity. If we need any sort of system, the appropriate one would be to reward companies that train citizens in skills the employer needs in order to fill any sort of skills gap.
  - c_lebesgue 10y ago
    While in principle I agree with you, in practice N was most of the time equal to 65k, with the exception of the dot-com bubble (years 1999-2003, so 80% of the time; program was added in 1990). And there probably should be something like H1B in any immigration system. Anyhow, the current political climate in the US does not give many hopes for an upgrade. In the meantime, I've discovered Switzerland, and quite honestly - I'm not looking back.
  - Joky 10y ago
    "Best university system in the history of humanity", which nation are you talking about? What is the metric for "best system"?
palakchokshi 10y ago
Well these are applications not granted visas. If a company wants to spend the application fee for that many applications then it is their choice. However it does not mean it will be granted a majority of the visas. However in light of the fact that now a lottery is in place maybe this is tantamount to buying more lottery tickets to increase your chances of winning.
- jedmeyers 10y ago
  > Well these are applications not granted visas. From the data it looks like those are granted visas.
  - mbreese 10y ago
    Those are visas classified as "Certified". I'm not sure what that means, but the categories are "Certified", "Certified-Withdrawn", "Withdrawn", or "Denied". http://www.myvisajobs.com/Certified-2016ST.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Certified-2016ST.htm But, if you look at the fine print on the site, you'll find this: Infosys Limited has applied for 113,445 LC and LCA from fiscal year 2013 to 2015. But this does not mean they really hired 113,445 foreign workers during this period. The visa applications might have been denied. When an employee renews or transfers his H1B visa or change work location under some circumstances, he will also file a new LCA application. Department of Labor(DOL) typically certifies more than 3 times the number of foreign work requests than the number of H1B visas issued by USCIS. So there is no one to one relationship between the number of workers certified by the DOL and the number of H1B work visas issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).

by huherto 10y ago

samfisher83 10y ago

Well google average salary is 127k. I don't think that includes rsu, bonus, etc. So I would say the salary is on par with what they are paying Americans. If you compare the H1-B to GC ratio its pretty close.

huherto 10y ago
Google is clearly not the problem. They have 4k H1B but they also have 60k USA employees.
- int_19h 10y ago
  Most large software companies are not the problem - they actually do use H1B the way it's intended, i.e. to supplement their work force when local talent is unavailable on short notice; and they offer equal pay for equal work. They also normally sponsor their H1B employees for green cards as soon as they're eligible, so we're not talking temp workers here, so much so as a skilled immigration stream. (Disclosure: I was an H1B worker before, so this is based on personal and anecdotal experience.) Places like Infosys and Tata are the problem. That's where H1B is milked for cheap labor, and where all those legal schemes to lower the salary as much as possible are heavily used. So far as I know, most workers that they hire do not get green cards, either. Problem is, the latter group is responsible for most H1B applications.
vostok 10y ago
I think Google would pay more than they do now if the H1B program did not exist or if visas were given to people with the highest salaries rather than randomly assigned.
mycodebreaks 10y ago
Apple is 136k, Facebook above 140k, Google 127k, Microsoft is above 120k.. so, these companies and many others which are paying in above ranges aren't violators.

c_lebesgue 10y ago

As someone who got "rejected" in the H1B random lottery - yes, the system needs an overhaul. Perhaps an auction system would be appropriate, where companies bid on visas, then top N bidders get visas from the pool, paying the lowest winning price. This would also work well with the idea that companies should first seek talent within the United States. The auction final quote would be a clear, publicly available portion of the costs of getting employees abroad. The only caveat I see is potential employment contract clauses forcing employees to stay in the company for a certain number of years. Currently there are no restrictions for switching jobs on an H1B.

serge2k 10y ago
I had a friend who got rejected twice, had to leave the country. He's a good software engineer for one of the big companies. Fortunately they kept him on and I guess they will try to get him an L1 once he meets the requirements.
ones_and_zeros 10y ago
Where N becomes a political football that us raised and lowered at the whim of lobbyists ultimately allowing wages to fall below market rates. There is no labor shortage in a nation of 300 million with the best university system in the history of humanity. If we need any sort of system, the appropriate one would be to reward companies that train citizens in skills the employer needs in order to fill any sort of skills gap.
- c_lebesgue 10y ago
  While in principle I agree with you, in practice N was most of the time equal to 65k, with the exception of the dot-com bubble (years 1999-2003, so 80% of the time; program was added in 1990). And there probably should be something like H1B in any immigration system. Anyhow, the current political climate in the US does not give many hopes for an upgrade. In the meantime, I've discovered Switzerland, and quite honestly - I'm not looking back.
- Joky 10y ago
  "Best university system in the history of humanity", which nation are you talking about? What is the metric for "best system"?

palakchokshi 10y ago

Well these are applications not granted visas. If a company wants to spend the application fee for that many applications then it is their choice. However it does not mean it will be granted a majority of the visas. However in light of the fact that now a lottery is in place maybe this is tantamount to buying more lottery tickets to increase your chances of winning.

jedmeyers 10y ago
> Well these are applications not granted visas. From the data it looks like those are granted visas.
- mbreese 10y ago
  Those are visas classified as "Certified". I'm not sure what that means, but the categories are "Certified", "Certified-Withdrawn", "Withdrawn", or "Denied". http://www.myvisajobs.com/Certified-2016ST.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Certified-2016ST.htm But, if you look at the fine print on the site, you'll find this: Infosys Limited has applied for 113,445 LC and LCA from fiscal year 2013 to 2015. But this does not mean they really hired 113,445 foreign workers during this period. The visa applications might have been denied. When an employee renews or transfers his H1B visa or change work location under some circumstances, he will also file a new LCA application. Department of Labor(DOL) typically certifies more than 3 times the number of foreign work requests than the number of H1B visas issued by USCIS. So there is no one to one relationship between the number of workers certified by the DOL and the number of H1B work visas issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS).