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Do we know if there's a lot or a little lost electricity that is generated as a result of the main engines running? I know cars waste a bunch of electricity (wh

Do we know if there's a lot or a little lost electricity that is generated as a result of the main engines running? I know cars waste a bunch of electricity (which is how hybrid batteries charge themselves when driving).

hx87 10y ago
Cars and planes don't "lose" electricity when their engines are running; otherwise their batteries would be constantly overcharged. Hybrid cars just have more powerful alternators.
- JonathonW 10y ago
  Hybrid cars don't necessarily have an alternator in the sense that an all gasoline car does-- for example, Toyota's hybrid system uses a pair of motor/generators (electric motors which can be configured to generate power too) connected to each other and to the gasoline engine through a planetary gearset.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    Electric motors and alternators are mostly equivalent, the difference is that the diode assembly on a car alternator would stop you from using one as a motor. Otherwise, they are roughly identical. That you don't find a 'traditional' alternator in an electric or hybrid car is simply because the electric motor doubles in that role when required. Almost all electric motors when spun will generate power, you'd have to do some work to get one not to generate power when driven.
    - m4x 10y ago
      AC induction motors are the most common type of motor for anything other than small electronics and turning one by hand will not generate any output power. They are definitely not identical to an alternator. The armature of an induction motor doesn't have an associated magnetic field so turning it won't generate any power in the windings. Permanent magnet motors are the only motor that will generate power if you just pick one up and turn it by hand, and they are quite rare (and expensive) at scales larger than a RC toy motor
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        Sorry, but you're wrong there. Remanent magnetism will allow you to use an AC induction motor as a generator just fine. Absent any remaining magnetism you can 'flash' the motor core with a short DC pulse and then start rotating it with your chosen driver afterwards. Just one sample (of many) of people using this trick for all kinds of interesting small RE applications: http://www.smallhydropower.com/induction.htm http://www.smallhydropower.com/induction.htm
        m4x 10y ago
        Interesting reading, thanks. There is always somebody with another clever trick up their sleeve.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
ars 10y ago
> Do we know if there's a lot or a little lost electricity that is generated as a result of the main engines running? That's not how it works. Car use an alternator instead of a generator because it lets them control how much electricity to make regardless of the speed at which the alternator spins. They basically vary the strength of the magnet in the alternator. If they didn't the effect of "extra electricity" is a higher voltage, which would obviously be bad. > I know cars waste a bunch of electricity (which is how hybrid batteries charge themselves when driving). Hybrid batteries mostly save energy by capturing wasted energy when braking and when going downhill. Charging batteries from the engine makes the engine consume more gas.
- jhayward 10y ago
  > Hybrid batteries mostly save energy by capturing wasted energy when braking and when going downhill Only for some workloads. A remarkable portion of the efficiency gain in hybrid vehicles is due to letting the ICE run at only the most efficient portion of the torque and power curves. In my experience (10 years in a Prius) regenerative braking is a distant second.
jacquesm 10y ago
The waste energy in a regular car is not electricity, it is mostly simply heat. Instead of heating up a brake-disc by clamping it with calipers and pads an electric car or a hybrid will engage the motor by allowing it to be driven by the car instead of the other way around. The resulting energy at the output terminals of the motor is rectified and used to charge the batteries. So when you brake your regular car you lose some heat to the environment, you don't 'waste a bunch of electricity'.

hx87 10y ago

Cars and planes don't "lose" electricity when their engines are running; otherwise their batteries would be constantly overcharged. Hybrid cars just have more powerful alternators.

JonathonW 10y ago
Hybrid cars don't necessarily have an alternator in the sense that an all gasoline car does-- for example, Toyota's hybrid system uses a pair of motor/generators (electric motors which can be configured to generate power too) connected to each other and to the gasoline engine through a planetary gearset.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Electric motors and alternators are mostly equivalent, the difference is that the diode assembly on a car alternator would stop you from using one as a motor. Otherwise, they are roughly identical. That you don't find a 'traditional' alternator in an electric or hybrid car is simply because the electric motor doubles in that role when required. Almost all electric motors when spun will generate power, you'd have to do some work to get one not to generate power when driven.
  - m4x 10y ago
    AC induction motors are the most common type of motor for anything other than small electronics and turning one by hand will not generate any output power. They are definitely not identical to an alternator. The armature of an induction motor doesn't have an associated magnetic field so turning it won't generate any power in the windings. Permanent magnet motors are the only motor that will generate power if you just pick one up and turn it by hand, and they are quite rare (and expensive) at scales larger than a RC toy motor
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Sorry, but you're wrong there. Remanent magnetism will allow you to use an AC induction motor as a generator just fine. Absent any remaining magnetism you can 'flash' the motor core with a short DC pulse and then start rotating it with your chosen driver afterwards. Just one sample (of many) of people using this trick for all kinds of interesting small RE applications: http://www.smallhydropower.com/induction.htm http://www.smallhydropower.com/induction.htm
      - m4x 10y ago
        Interesting reading, thanks. There is always somebody with another clever trick up their sleeve.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

ars 10y ago

> Do we know if there's a lot or a little lost electricity that is generated as a result of the main engines running? That's not how it works. Car use an alternator instead of a generator because it lets them control how much electricity to make regardless of the speed at which the alternator spins. They basically vary the strength of the magnet in the alternator. If they didn't the effect of "extra electricity" is a higher voltage, which would obviously be bad. > I know cars waste a bunch of electricity (which is how hybrid batteries charge themselves when driving). Hybrid batteries mostly save energy by capturing wasted energy when braking and when going downhill. Charging batteries from the engine makes the engine consume more gas.

jhayward 10y ago
> Hybrid batteries mostly save energy by capturing wasted energy when braking and when going downhill Only for some workloads. A remarkable portion of the efficiency gain in hybrid vehicles is due to letting the ICE run at only the most efficient portion of the torque and power curves. In my experience (10 years in a Prius) regenerative braking is a distant second.

jacquesm 10y ago

The waste energy in a regular car is not electricity, it is mostly simply heat. Instead of heating up a brake-disc by clamping it with calipers and pads an electric car or a hybrid will engage the motor by allowing it to be driven by the car instead of the other way around. The resulting energy at the output terminals of the motor is rectified and used to charge the batteries. So when you brake your regular car you lose some heat to the environment, you don't 'waste a bunch of electricity'.