7 ms·

Instead of forbidding burkinis, a better way to fight against this backward repressive fashion would be to encourage people to go swimming in the nude. It's alr

Instead of forbidding burkinis, a better way to fight against this backward repressive fashion would be to encourage people to go swimming in the nude. It's already mostly accepted on french beaches and would be a nice cultural counter, non violently reclaiming public space from extremists ideologies.

lucd 10y ago
Outside of nudist beaches, which represent a tiny fraction, swimming in the nude isn't tolerated on french beaches. (maybe you were joking ?)
- sheepdestroyer 10y ago
  That is really theoretical and enforcement depends of individual cities. In fact a lot a naturist beaches are not separated from the normal ones by any physical limitation and you can go from one side to the other without noticing it. I know it for having found myself surprised to be on the fun part of the beach countless times. That's a picture of a French minister crossing path with a local enjoying himself : http://www.directmatin.fr/france/2016-08-11/emmanuel-macron-croise-un-nudiste-dans-paris-match-736195 http://www.directmatin.fr/france/2016-08-11/emmanuel-macron-... Oh, and topless for women is ok everywhere.
Grishnakh 10y ago
That won't "reclaim" the beaches, you'll just have conflicts between the two groups. The way to solve it is to make the beaches nude-only. Then no anti-religious discrimination can be claimed: if they want to swim there, they just have to shed their clothes, and the rule is the same for everyone. Although, as a very fair-skinned person, the main problem I'd have with that is sunburn; I already like to wear a t-shirt at the beach for that reason.
- belorn 10y ago
  Wouldn't the more obvious choice be to have 3 different beaches, one for no clothes, one for cultural accepted amount of clothes, and one fully clothed. It would follow the current setup of non-nude and nude beaches, and everyone could avoid being confronted with situations that they are uncomfortable with.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    Why should a bunch of religious nuts be entitled to having their own public beach set aside for them? If they get the prime section of beach, then everyone else is going to complain (rightfully) that the religious minority is getting special privileges. If they get the crappy section of beach (relative to the nude and normal beaches), the religious minority is going to complain that they're being discriminated against. You can't make a bunch of identical beaches. Beaches are not like software; you can't endlessly replicate them. Some are better than others, and they're a limited resource. And finally, why should the country cater to religious extremists in the first place?
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Confused: currently all the beaches are set aside for the religious nuts - the Frenchmen who can't abide anyone dressing differently.
      - Grishnakh 10y ago
        That's a stupid statement. There's no religion involved there, only culture. And who are you to tell the people of a whole nation that their culture is wrong, and that they should abandon it and adopt someone else's culture?
        JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Are they separable in France?

lucd 10y ago

Outside of nudist beaches, which represent a tiny fraction, swimming in the nude isn't tolerated on french beaches. (maybe you were joking ?)

sheepdestroyer 10y ago
That is really theoretical and enforcement depends of individual cities. In fact a lot a naturist beaches are not separated from the normal ones by any physical limitation and you can go from one side to the other without noticing it. I know it for having found myself surprised to be on the fun part of the beach countless times. That's a picture of a French minister crossing path with a local enjoying himself : http://www.directmatin.fr/france/2016-08-11/emmanuel-macron-croise-un-nudiste-dans-paris-match-736195 http://www.directmatin.fr/france/2016-08-11/emmanuel-macron-... Oh, and topless for women is ok everywhere.

Grishnakh 10y ago

That won't "reclaim" the beaches, you'll just have conflicts between the two groups. The way to solve it is to make the beaches nude-only. Then no anti-religious discrimination can be claimed: if they want to swim there, they just have to shed their clothes, and the rule is the same for everyone. Although, as a very fair-skinned person, the main problem I'd have with that is sunburn; I already like to wear a t-shirt at the beach for that reason.

belorn 10y ago
Wouldn't the more obvious choice be to have 3 different beaches, one for no clothes, one for cultural accepted amount of clothes, and one fully clothed. It would follow the current setup of non-nude and nude beaches, and everyone could avoid being confronted with situations that they are uncomfortable with.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Why should a bunch of religious nuts be entitled to having their own public beach set aside for them? If they get the prime section of beach, then everyone else is going to complain (rightfully) that the religious minority is getting special privileges. If they get the crappy section of beach (relative to the nude and normal beaches), the religious minority is going to complain that they're being discriminated against. You can't make a bunch of identical beaches. Beaches are not like software; you can't endlessly replicate them. Some are better than others, and they're a limited resource. And finally, why should the country cater to religious extremists in the first place?
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Confused: currently all the beaches are set aside for the religious nuts - the Frenchmen who can't abide anyone dressing differently.
    - Grishnakh 10y ago
      That's a stupid statement. There's no religion involved there, only culture. And who are you to tell the people of a whole nation that their culture is wrong, and that they should abandon it and adopt someone else's culture?
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Are they separable in France?