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From the outside it seems like the USA are overdue for a deep change. Other Western countries (except maybe the UK, it may be related to the mindset of Common L

by erelde 10y ago

From the outside it seems like the USA are overdue for a deep change. Other Western countries (except maybe the UK, it may be related to the mindset of Common Law) have had multiple deep political changes. Think Germany, the current system isn't 30 year old, France is at its "fifth repupblic", Spain democracy was formed after Franco's death 1975, etc. In short the old world isn't so old.

andy_ppp 10y ago
I think Thatcher did change Britain unrecognisably as did the Blair government (immigration).
- alex_hitchins 10y ago
  I would say Blair did a lot more than just immigration. I'm not a massive fan of the man, but many of the policies New Labour brought in were radical. Renationalising the rail network for one[0]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack Edit to mention it was I believe Blair who relaxed Cannabis from Class B to C, and Brown who put it back to B. C being the lowest classification.
ekianjo 10y ago
> France is at its "fifth repupblic" What does it prove exactly ? The Fourth republic was a total mess with extreme political unstability, despite being "new" at the time. Newness is hardly any indication of good.
- erelde 10y ago
  I didn't say that... In fact I made almost no judgement on the quality of the changes... But, if I had to discuss this subject: I would say that in a nuclear computer powered world, a political system originally designed for farmers and horses, on which we consistently hack workarounds, isn't the best choice. And on the subject of the Fourth Republic, would you agree with me that this was a direct consequence of WWII and that in terms of "political time" it was changed very quickly?
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    > a political system originally designed for farmers and horses I don't think the time span is THAT relevant. Constitution and Laws are very much a matter of philosophy and human behaviour understanding, rather than technological advances. Look at how the philosophy of ancient Greek still resonates with us even though they were living in a totally different world. I'm sure if we could get writing from prehistoric men we would still be able to relate to them and understand their feelings and behaviours. Talking about France, the Code Napoleon was written way before the modern Era yet most of the civil code is still coming from it. If anything, the American Constitution is a model of stability. It separates powers, bring clear principles but does not delve in black listing specific stuff and therefore makes it flexible to the advances in technology. If anything, most of the issues in the US at the moment is not because the Constitution and Laws are obsolete, rather that the Federal Government is directly violating them and nobody cares enough to fight for them.
    - erelde 10y ago
      All of those are also valid points. Thank you. Though I still believe some kind of societal "shedding of skin" is required from time to time in human societies. I also believe there are different expectations from people used to the Common Law concept and those not used to it.
Nutomic 10y ago
Why is the current system in Germany only 30 years old? As far as I know, there weren't any laws changed with the unification (except of unifying Germany of course). So it's really a 70 year old system. Agree with your point though.

by erelde 10y ago

andy_ppp 10y ago

I think Thatcher did change Britain unrecognisably as did the Blair government (immigration).

alex_hitchins 10y ago
I would say Blair did a lot more than just immigration. I'm not a massive fan of the man, but many of the policies New Labour brought in were radical. Renationalising the rail network for one[0]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack Edit to mention it was I believe Blair who relaxed Cannabis from Class B to C, and Brown who put it back to B. C being the lowest classification.

ekianjo 10y ago

> France is at its "fifth repupblic" What does it prove exactly ? The Fourth republic was a total mess with extreme political unstability, despite being "new" at the time. Newness is hardly any indication of good.

erelde 10y ago
I didn't say that... In fact I made almost no judgement on the quality of the changes... But, if I had to discuss this subject: I would say that in a nuclear computer powered world, a political system originally designed for farmers and horses, on which we consistently hack workarounds, isn't the best choice. And on the subject of the Fourth Republic, would you agree with me that this was a direct consequence of WWII and that in terms of "political time" it was changed very quickly?
- ekianjo 10y ago
  > a political system originally designed for farmers and horses I don't think the time span is THAT relevant. Constitution and Laws are very much a matter of philosophy and human behaviour understanding, rather than technological advances. Look at how the philosophy of ancient Greek still resonates with us even though they were living in a totally different world. I'm sure if we could get writing from prehistoric men we would still be able to relate to them and understand their feelings and behaviours. Talking about France, the Code Napoleon was written way before the modern Era yet most of the civil code is still coming from it. If anything, the American Constitution is a model of stability. It separates powers, bring clear principles but does not delve in black listing specific stuff and therefore makes it flexible to the advances in technology. If anything, most of the issues in the US at the moment is not because the Constitution and Laws are obsolete, rather that the Federal Government is directly violating them and nobody cares enough to fight for them.
  - erelde 10y ago
    All of those are also valid points. Thank you. Though I still believe some kind of societal "shedding of skin" is required from time to time in human societies. I also believe there are different expectations from people used to the Common Law concept and those not used to it.

Nutomic 10y ago

Why is the current system in Germany only 30 years old? As far as I know, there weren't any laws changed with the unification (except of unifying Germany of course). So it's really a 70 year old system. Agree with your point though.