5 ms·

I can't seem to find anything in google, but I remember reading about something similar some ~10 years ago for military aircraft. Apparently there were experim

by ep103 10y ago

I can't seem to find anything in google, but I remember reading about something similar some ~10 years ago for military aircraft. Apparently there were experimental fighter jets that had large ionizing beams of some sort shooting in front of the aircraft? The claim was along the lines of by ionizing the air in front of the craft, it significantly reduced the drag the plane experienced flying through that pocket of air moments later. I'm having a hard time finding articles on it, but it sounds so similar to this article.

Gracana 10y ago
From what they're saying in this article, it seems like they're just using it to push air around in the right spots, ionization is a byproduct.
Rooster61 10y ago
I think the difference between then and now in terms of making this a viable technology is the presence of computers fast enough to process the shape of the incoming airmass and shape the plasma to compensate. I would imagine the calculations required are fairly intensive.
nkoren 10y ago
There have been theories for over a decade that the B2 includes a technology like this: http://starburstfound.org/electrograviticsblog/?p=21 http://starburstfound.org/electrograviticsblog/?p=21 (Edit: Here's the farthest-back link I can find, allegedly from 1993(!): http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects44.htm http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobje.... Alas, it's full of anti-gravity and over-unity and other such rubbish, but the bit about the B-2 using electrostatic discharge to shape the airflow around it certainly does sound like what's being referenced in the OP. Almost make me wonder whether anti-gravity etc. aren't simply smokescreens to fuzz up the S/N ratio of leaks about legitimately cutting-edge technologies.)
- sandworm101 10y ago
  The B2? A stealth aircraft equipped with an array of pulsing electrodes strong enough to move air? I haven’t read anything about this, but I assume that these things are extremely loud radio emitters.
  - nkoren 10y ago
    Allegedly it creates a plasma shield which has a radar-shielding effect, in addition to reducing drag (and maybe actually moving the air). But yeah, you'd think that the RF signature would be unmistakable...
    - hengheng 10y ago
      A radar-shielding plasma shield sounds a bit like having a speaker wall to mask conversations.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        Welcome to 'anti-sound': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control If the 'wail' is carefully tuned to the original forces dragging on the craft it might actually work.
      - ridgeguy 10y ago
        More like a sonic absorber. Plasmas are electrical conductors. The electric field of an incident radar wave couples to electrons and ions that compose the plasma and drives currents. This ends up dissipating the radar energy as heat. It's the same result as if the radar hit a poor electrical conductor like carbon-loaded plastic: not much reflection (cause of poor conductivity), but creation of internal currents that dissipate radar energy as heat. It's a resistive dummy load for the radar energy. This plasma-as-conductor thing can lead to some really interesting antennas. [1] Fill a long plastic tube with an easily ionized gas, and connect the output of your radio transmitter to it. When you want to transmit, ionize the gas column with a high voltage, low current discharge. Voila, you have a nice conductive column to radiate your RF from. Finished with transmission, switch off ionization power. Antenna is then electrically gone. Very important if you're on a battlefield, being hunted by things that can find antennas made out of metal. Your plasma antenna can be there and gone in a millisecond. Phased-array models exist, too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna
y04nn 10y ago
I also remember something like this. I just checked, this is a old idea, there is a patent (US 3507348 A) from 1970
mcguire 10y ago
I believe that is different. IIRC, that theory was about shooting ionizing radiation in front of the vehicle to reduce air density. This is using tiny, precise plasma "fans" plus a lot of computational fluid dynamics to direct the airflow on a small scale. And it's not a very bad idea.
jcbeard 10y ago
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was googling for that. I remember two different popular science or mechanics article with that headline. One that had something to do with plasma cloaking, and the other was using plasma for a heat shield...similar to the actuator concept. Again, seems my google-foo has failed...

by ep103 10y ago

Gracana 10y ago

From what they're saying in this article, it seems like they're just using it to push air around in the right spots, ionization is a byproduct.

Rooster61 10y ago

I think the difference between then and now in terms of making this a viable technology is the presence of computers fast enough to process the shape of the incoming airmass and shape the plasma to compensate. I would imagine the calculations required are fairly intensive.

nkoren 10y ago

There have been theories for over a decade that the B2 includes a technology like this: http://starburstfound.org/electrograviticsblog/?p=21 http://starburstfound.org/electrograviticsblog/?p=21 (Edit: Here's the farthest-back link I can find, allegedly from 1993(!): http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobjects44.htm http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_flyingobje.... Alas, it's full of anti-gravity and over-unity and other such rubbish, but the bit about the B-2 using electrostatic discharge to shape the airflow around it certainly does sound like what's being referenced in the OP. Almost make me wonder whether anti-gravity etc. aren't simply smokescreens to fuzz up the S/N ratio of leaks about legitimately cutting-edge technologies.)

sandworm101 10y ago
The B2? A stealth aircraft equipped with an array of pulsing electrodes strong enough to move air? I haven’t read anything about this, but I assume that these things are extremely loud radio emitters.
- nkoren 10y ago
  Allegedly it creates a plasma shield which has a radar-shielding effect, in addition to reducing drag (and maybe actually moving the air). But yeah, you'd think that the RF signature would be unmistakable...
  - hengheng 10y ago
    A radar-shielding plasma shield sounds a bit like having a speaker wall to mask conversations.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      Welcome to 'anti-sound': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control If the 'wail' is carefully tuned to the original forces dragging on the craft it might actually work.
    - ridgeguy 10y ago
      More like a sonic absorber. Plasmas are electrical conductors. The electric field of an incident radar wave couples to electrons and ions that compose the plasma and drives currents. This ends up dissipating the radar energy as heat. It's the same result as if the radar hit a poor electrical conductor like carbon-loaded plastic: not much reflection (cause of poor conductivity), but creation of internal currents that dissipate radar energy as heat. It's a resistive dummy load for the radar energy. This plasma-as-conductor thing can lead to some really interesting antennas. [1] Fill a long plastic tube with an easily ionized gas, and connect the output of your radio transmitter to it. When you want to transmit, ionize the gas column with a high voltage, low current discharge. Voila, you have a nice conductive column to radiate your RF from. Finished with transmission, switch off ionization power. Antenna is then electrically gone. Very important if you're on a battlefield, being hunted by things that can find antennas made out of metal. Your plasma antenna can be there and gone in a millisecond. Phased-array models exist, too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna

y04nn 10y ago

I also remember something like this. I just checked, this is a old idea, there is a patent (US 3507348 A) from 1970

mcguire 10y ago

I believe that is different. IIRC, that theory was about shooting ionizing radiation in front of the vehicle to reduce air density. This is using tiny, precise plasma "fans" plus a lot of computational fluid dynamics to direct the airflow on a small scale. And it's not a very bad idea.

jcbeard 10y ago

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was googling for that. I remember two different popular science or mechanics article with that headline. One that had something to do with plasma cloaking, and the other was using plasma for a heat shield...similar to the actuator concept. Again, seems my google-foo has failed...