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If you look at the design of Kubernetes you'll find a very strong opinion on how networking is done. Kubernetes does not allow the use of Network Address Transl

If you look at the design of Kubernetes you'll find a very strong opinion on how networking is done. Kubernetes does not allow the use of Network Address Translation (NAT) for container-to-container or for container-to-node traffic. The internal container IP address must match the IP address that is used to communicate with it. Swarm plays faster and looser than this. I think Google's age and experience shows that Docker went the wrong way.

InTheArena 10y ago
If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud, then i agree. Docker is doing exactly what they should be, but in a manner that is destructive. Getting a built in consistent p2p routing mesh under every container is brilliant, and fixes one of the biggest problems with k8s and swarm (it's not really possible for these technologies to interoperate because of incompatibilities with the network model). The big problem is the stability hit. 1.12 had no business loosing the rc label.
- dward 10y ago
  > If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud, then i agree. Why do you think this is a requirement of Google Cloud?
  - InTheArena 10y ago
    Kubernetes and Google Cloud were both informed by the design and implemention of Borg. Kubernetes is basically for all intents and purposes Google Container Engine. That's fine, but it;s highly tuned for how google sees the world.
    - nickbauman 10y ago
      Huh? Kubernetes can run just fine outside of Google's Cloud. It'll work on any TCP/IP IaaS offering out there. If you mean it demands a clear end-to-end connection model for the important moving parts, then, yeah; because of hard-won experience of what works. They found out that you want to spend your time on bugs in your app, not bugs in your networking infra.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- thockingoog 10y ago
  disclosure: Kubernetes engineer > If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud Quite on the contrary. Kubernetes flies in the face of Google's cloud APIs, and has to take advantage of every dirty trick it can. But it does that because the result is better. I can say that without hesitation, having worked on the logical conclusion of port-mapping (Borg). > Getting a built in consistent p2p routing mesh under every container is brilliant, and fixes one of the biggest problems with k8s That's hilarious to me, because what Docker calls "routing mesh" is a feature that Kubernetes has had since 1.0. It's different in some subtle ways, but again, for really important reasons.

InTheArena 10y ago

If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud, then i agree. Docker is doing exactly what they should be, but in a manner that is destructive. Getting a built in consistent p2p routing mesh under every container is brilliant, and fixes one of the biggest problems with k8s and swarm (it's not really possible for these technologies to interoperate because of incompatibilities with the network model). The big problem is the stability hit. 1.12 had no business loosing the rc label.

dward 10y ago
> If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud, then i agree. Why do you think this is a requirement of Google Cloud?
- InTheArena 10y ago
  Kubernetes and Google Cloud were both informed by the design and implemention of Borg. Kubernetes is basically for all intents and purposes Google Container Engine. That's fine, but it;s highly tuned for how google sees the world.
  - nickbauman 10y ago
    Huh? Kubernetes can run just fine outside of Google's Cloud. It'll work on any TCP/IP IaaS offering out there. If you mean it demands a clear end-to-end connection model for the important moving parts, then, yeah; because of hard-won experience of what works. They found out that you want to spend your time on bugs in your app, not bugs in your networking infra.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
thockingoog 10y ago
disclosure: Kubernetes engineer > If by google's age and experience, you mean the requirements of the Google Cloud Quite on the contrary. Kubernetes flies in the face of Google's cloud APIs, and has to take advantage of every dirty trick it can. But it does that because the result is better. I can say that without hesitation, having worked on the logical conclusion of port-mapping (Borg). > Getting a built in consistent p2p routing mesh under every container is brilliant, and fixes one of the biggest problems with k8s That's hilarious to me, because what Docker calls "routing mesh" is a feature that Kubernetes has had since 1.0. It's different in some subtle ways, but again, for really important reasons.