4 ms·

Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Yes, some of these are a shame, but the student might st

by esaym 10y ago

Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Yes, some of these are a shame, but the student might still learn something. And there's also the issue of time and scheduling. Many older people don't have the time to go to a traditional college and taking a 1 year program at night for a "2 year associates degree" fits them better. Even worse still, most of these tech type schools around where I am are "non-profit". Not sure what that means or whats the difference, but they are just as much as a shame. One is some "art institute". I knew a girl who's dad paid $30K for her to go there for a year. She graduated but only worked briefly afterwards, and then couldn't get employed again. There is another aviation institute near me (also non-profit). Again $30K for 1 year of schooling. Although most could get a job afterwards, they found out working at McDonald's was far better than crawling around in a 110 degree aircraft fuel tank checking for leaks for $15hr.

nkrisc 10y ago
I think the government has a right to ensure that the aid it pays out for an education is actually going towards an education, and not a front for siphoning federal aid for the enrichment of executives and shareholders.
- wang_li 10y ago
  >not a front for siphoning federal aid for the enrichment of executives and shareholders. So many public and private non-profit universities are going to wet themselves if anyone starts enforcing that rule. Ok, they don't have shareholders, but it's well documented that the increasing cost of university and college educations is largely driven by administrative overhead and not paying professors, adjuncts and lecturers.
  - Kevin_S 10y ago
    The increase in administrative overhead and such is more a case of the modern customer. Comparing private non profit universities and these BS places is stretching too far. On the customers - the ability to attract modern students rests more on amenities like dining halls and dorms, not on the academics. Sad, but ultimately true.
    - wang_li 10y ago
      This kind of competition is only possible due to federal aid. There is a certain amount of non-educational amenities being provided, but it's trivial to find articles like these http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323316804578161490716042814 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873233168045781614... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/higher-ed-administrators-growth_n_4738584.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/higher-ed-administr... That document the growth in non-teaching administrative and professional staff at universities. Staff that grow at more than double the rates of enrollment and teaching positions.
dkuntz2 10y ago
It's not about barring anyone from an education, but about keeping federal aid from going to them. Though, based on the article the fact that they're a for-profit institution seems tangential to the actual reason they're not allowed to accept federal aid because they're no longer accredited.
jobu 10y ago
> Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Not sure how you got that from the linked article. Here is the issue: ITT is under threat of having its accreditation revoked, which could lead its 137 campuses to close and result in tens of thousands of students seeking loan forgiveness. The federal government stands to lose millions of dollars in student loan repayments if ITT loses accreditation. Same thing happened with Corinthian Colleges last year - https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/corinthian https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/corinthian
sliverstorm 10y ago
The government has no right to bar you from traveling. The government has no constitutional obligation to pay for your plane ticket.
- lowpro 10y ago
  So why are they paying the 'proverbial plane ticket' in this case? I think that's what the OP is saying here.
  - sliverstorm 10y ago
    Because we decided we/they should, for equality of opportunity & economic benefit. We build city parks because we think they are good. That doesn't mean that city parks are a basic human right constitutionally owed to us by the federal government.
beedogs 10y ago
> Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Yes, some of these are a shame, but the student might still learn something. That's some of the most threadbare reasoning I've ever seen on HN.

by esaym 10y ago

nkrisc 10y ago

I think the government has a right to ensure that the aid it pays out for an education is actually going towards an education, and not a front for siphoning federal aid for the enrichment of executives and shareholders.

wang_li 10y ago
>not a front for siphoning federal aid for the enrichment of executives and shareholders. So many public and private non-profit universities are going to wet themselves if anyone starts enforcing that rule. Ok, they don't have shareholders, but it's well documented that the increasing cost of university and college educations is largely driven by administrative overhead and not paying professors, adjuncts and lecturers.
- Kevin_S 10y ago
  The increase in administrative overhead and such is more a case of the modern customer. Comparing private non profit universities and these BS places is stretching too far. On the customers - the ability to attract modern students rests more on amenities like dining halls and dorms, not on the academics. Sad, but ultimately true.
  - wang_li 10y ago
    This kind of competition is only possible due to federal aid. There is a certain amount of non-educational amenities being provided, but it's trivial to find articles like these http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323316804578161490716042814 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873233168045781614... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/higher-ed-administrators-growth_n_4738584.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/06/higher-ed-administr... That document the growth in non-teaching administrative and professional staff at universities. Staff that grow at more than double the rates of enrollment and teaching positions.

dkuntz2 10y ago

It's not about barring anyone from an education, but about keeping federal aid from going to them. Though, based on the article the fact that they're a for-profit institution seems tangential to the actual reason they're not allowed to accept federal aid because they're no longer accredited.

jobu 10y ago

> Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Not sure how you got that from the linked article. Here is the issue: ITT is under threat of having its accreditation revoked, which could lead its 137 campuses to close and result in tens of thousands of students seeking loan forgiveness. The federal government stands to lose millions of dollars in student loan repayments if ITT loses accreditation. Same thing happened with Corinthian Colleges last year - https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/corinthian https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/about/announcements/corinthian

sliverstorm 10y ago

The government has no right to bar you from traveling. The government has no constitutional obligation to pay for your plane ticket.

lowpro 10y ago
So why are they paying the 'proverbial plane ticket' in this case? I think that's what the OP is saying here.
- sliverstorm 10y ago
  Because we decided we/they should, for equality of opportunity & economic benefit. We build city parks because we think they are good. That doesn't mean that city parks are a basic human right constitutionally owed to us by the federal government.

beedogs 10y ago

> Personally I don't think the government has the right to bar anyone from getting any kind of education. Yes, some of these are a shame, but the student might still learn something. That's some of the most threadbare reasoning I've ever seen on HN.