4 ms·

What I find rather interesting, is that throughout human history we never had a need for trigger warnings until now. We've had slavery, 2 world wars, famine, co

What I find rather interesting, is that throughout human history we never had a need for trigger warnings until now. We've had slavery, 2 world wars, famine, countless horrors inflicted on a countless number of people. Nobody asks for it. Then I look to the third world there we have things like female genital mutilation, are the women who had that horror put upon them concerned with trigger warnings? Nope. Not as far as I can tell. Why here, why now? Are modern first world citizens mentally weaker somehow? I posit that it these types of policies may do more harm than good long term.

qntty 10y ago
Well the US has had obscenity laws in place until recently. It's just that the people who decided what was "upsetting" were politicians rather than students and had the power to get rid of it completely.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  In practice those laws rarely if ever were applied to college classroom or similar event. Speech within a private facility by individuals has always been protected.
  - qntty 10y ago
    Well yeah, but if a book can never get published because of obscenity laws, it will never be discussed in a classroom. The law doesn't even need to be actually enforced very often to have an effect. The fact that authors know that their books might be labeled as obscene will make them censor themselves.
- slavik81 10y ago
  The United States still has obscenity laws. For example, Alabama's Anti-Obscenity Enforcement Act [1]. It was challenged, but the Supreme Court declined to hear the case. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Obscenity_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Obscenity_Enforcement_Act
sp332 10y ago
When my grandfather got back from WWII, he went to work at a printing press. One day a neon sign fell and shattered just across the room from him. When he became aware of himself again, he had ripped up all of his fingernails trying to dig a foxhole in the concrete floor with his bare hands. Recovery is always the goal, not keeping someone continually vulnerable. And over time, in more controlled circumstances, exposure therapy can be an effective part of a person's recovery. But you can bet that he kept his eye out for triggers for a while.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  Why didn't he and his fellows advocate for "trigger warnings" then? Perhaps a greater sense of personal responsibility? I'm honestly curious.
  - sp332 10y ago
    What makes you think they didn't? Just politely ask people around you not to make ridiculously loud noises without warning. It probably didn't occur to them to come up with a funny name for it because it's a very natural and sensible thing to do.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      Asking is a quite different than what is being demanded by people today. People who advocate for 'trigger warnings' want it enforced by law as far as I understand. My question is still unanswered, what changed?
      - vertex-four 10y ago
        No, people who ask for trigger warnings don't want it enforced by law. They want people they interact with to be polite enough to take their needs into consideration. That's it. If a friend asked you, "please don't talk about rape or slavery around me (in cases that you really need to) without giving me an opportunity to collect myself", would you say "sure thing, I'll try and keep that in mind" or "no, fuck off and look after yourself"?
DanBC 10y ago
> are the women who had that horror put upon them concerned with trigger warnings? Nope. Not as far as I can tell. How many of them have you asked?
minikites 10y ago
To put your argument another way, throughout human history we've had famine, plagues, and high infant mortality rates. Since the modern developed world has easy access to food, sanitation, and medical treatment, we will clearly be weaker in the long run.
joesmo 10y ago
Gotta find something to complain about when life is going so well or when life is not going so well but you have no control over the things that make it fail. People today, at least in the US, are incredibly scared of all manner of fiction. Whether you think your supermarket will be the next ISIS target or you're actively waiting for the end of the world which you're sure will come in your lifetime, you're scared. And scared people do stupid shit and attack others. On the other hand, not everyone has a good life here. Poverty is rampant in America. But there is little individuals can do to fix their condition. So they turn against other. Make no mistake about it: demanding trigger warnings and safe spaces is an attack on others. We used to call people that demanded such things "assholes" and I see no reason to stop. As far as other parts of the world go, I never heard of anyone in Europe talking about safe spaces or trigger warnings and I'm pretty sure they don't waste breath on such stupidities over there so it doesn't seem to be an issue outside the US, though I could be wrong.
- collyw 10y ago
  No but the oppressive left mindset of banning everything they disagree with seems to be gaining traction.
  - norea-armozel 10y ago
    Yeah because it's oppression to have student associations who have their own private offices and rented spaces to for their members and not for strangers looking to "debate" the association. What's next, folks, demand that you debate a pastor at a church because you're an atheist (or vice versa, a pastor demands the right to debate a biology professor at the college)? Your right to "speech" only applies to the public spaces of the State. So stop trying to expand free speech to mean "freedom to scream at people whenever you want."
    - joesmo 10y ago
      What you do in your own private office is your own business. No one cares. What the rest of us care about is what goes on in the classroom. I think you're missing the point completely by arguing for something that no one else here is talking about.
aninhumer 10y ago
Because once we solve the big problems, we can afford to care about smaller ones. Throughout history people washed clothes by hand (at least the ones who had clothes), are modern first world citizens mentally weaker because we'd much rather have washing machines?

qntty 10y ago

Well the US has had obscenity laws in place until recently. It's just that the people who decided what was "upsetting" were politicians rather than students and had the power to get rid of it completely.

cmdrfred 10y ago
In practice those laws rarely if ever were applied to college classroom or similar event. Speech within a private facility by individuals has always been protected.
- qntty 10y ago
  Well yeah, but if a book can never get published because of obscenity laws, it will never be discussed in a classroom. The law doesn't even need to be actually enforced very often to have an effect. The fact that authors know that their books might be labeled as obscene will make them censor themselves.
slavik81 10y ago
The United States still has obscenity laws. For example, Alabama's Anti-Obscenity Enforcement Act [1]. It was challenged, but the Supreme Court declined to hear the case. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Obscenity_Enforcement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Obscenity_Enforcement_Act

sp332 10y ago

When my grandfather got back from WWII, he went to work at a printing press. One day a neon sign fell and shattered just across the room from him. When he became aware of himself again, he had ripped up all of his fingernails trying to dig a foxhole in the concrete floor with his bare hands. Recovery is always the goal, not keeping someone continually vulnerable. And over time, in more controlled circumstances, exposure therapy can be an effective part of a person's recovery. But you can bet that he kept his eye out for triggers for a while.

cmdrfred 10y ago
Why didn't he and his fellows advocate for "trigger warnings" then? Perhaps a greater sense of personal responsibility? I'm honestly curious.
- sp332 10y ago
  What makes you think they didn't? Just politely ask people around you not to make ridiculously loud noises without warning. It probably didn't occur to them to come up with a funny name for it because it's a very natural and sensible thing to do.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    Asking is a quite different than what is being demanded by people today. People who advocate for 'trigger warnings' want it enforced by law as far as I understand. My question is still unanswered, what changed?
    - vertex-four 10y ago
      No, people who ask for trigger warnings don't want it enforced by law. They want people they interact with to be polite enough to take their needs into consideration. That's it. If a friend asked you, "please don't talk about rape or slavery around me (in cases that you really need to) without giving me an opportunity to collect myself", would you say "sure thing, I'll try and keep that in mind" or "no, fuck off and look after yourself"?

DanBC 10y ago

> are the women who had that horror put upon them concerned with trigger warnings? Nope. Not as far as I can tell. How many of them have you asked?

minikites 10y ago

To put your argument another way, throughout human history we've had famine, plagues, and high infant mortality rates. Since the modern developed world has easy access to food, sanitation, and medical treatment, we will clearly be weaker in the long run.

joesmo 10y ago

Gotta find something to complain about when life is going so well or when life is not going so well but you have no control over the things that make it fail. People today, at least in the US, are incredibly scared of all manner of fiction. Whether you think your supermarket will be the next ISIS target or you're actively waiting for the end of the world which you're sure will come in your lifetime, you're scared. And scared people do stupid shit and attack others. On the other hand, not everyone has a good life here. Poverty is rampant in America. But there is little individuals can do to fix their condition. So they turn against other. Make no mistake about it: demanding trigger warnings and safe spaces is an attack on others. We used to call people that demanded such things "assholes" and I see no reason to stop. As far as other parts of the world go, I never heard of anyone in Europe talking about safe spaces or trigger warnings and I'm pretty sure they don't waste breath on such stupidities over there so it doesn't seem to be an issue outside the US, though I could be wrong.

collyw 10y ago
No but the oppressive left mindset of banning everything they disagree with seems to be gaining traction.
- norea-armozel 10y ago
  Yeah because it's oppression to have student associations who have their own private offices and rented spaces to for their members and not for strangers looking to "debate" the association. What's next, folks, demand that you debate a pastor at a church because you're an atheist (or vice versa, a pastor demands the right to debate a biology professor at the college)? Your right to "speech" only applies to the public spaces of the State. So stop trying to expand free speech to mean "freedom to scream at people whenever you want."
  - joesmo 10y ago
    What you do in your own private office is your own business. No one cares. What the rest of us care about is what goes on in the classroom. I think you're missing the point completely by arguing for something that no one else here is talking about.

aninhumer 10y ago

Because once we solve the big problems, we can afford to care about smaller ones. Throughout history people washed clothes by hand (at least the ones who had clothes), are modern first world citizens mentally weaker because we'd much rather have washing machines?