5 ms·

They don't want students to have any spaces where they feel safe/accepted? That's weird.

spriggan3 10y ago
> They don't want students to have any spaces where they feel safe/accepted? That's weird. Why would a student need a special space to feel safe/accepted? Doesn't the university already provide students basic safety?
- sp332 10y ago
  No, students get harassed and raped at a pretty high rate. And suicide is the #2 cause of death among young adults. Physical security and "acceptance" is a big public health issue.
  - djrogers 10y ago
    thays just not true - the rate of rape and sexual assault is lower for college students (at 6.1 per 1,000) than for non-students (7.6 per 1,000). [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/14/campus-rape-uva-crisis-rolling-stone-politics-column/20397277/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/14/campus-rape...
    - sp332 10y ago
      The cited study: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf It points out that students are very unlikely to report rape to the police, but somehow assumes that they will answer questions about it on a survey. It also shows wide variations from one year to another. It's not a bad study, but the data doesn't really inspire confidence. Edit: from page 3 "From 1997 to 2013, females ages 18 to 24 consistently experienced higher rates of rape and sexual assault than females in other age brackets." and from page 4: "However, there was no significant difference in the rates of female students and nonstudents who experienced attempted rape or other sexual assault. This suggests that differences in the rates of completed rape largely accounted for differences in the overall rates of rape and sexual assault between students and nonstudents."
    - panglott 10y ago
      The Instapundit is attempting to debunk public-health assessments of the incidence of sexual assault with crime-report data, when a key argument of anti-rape activists is that rape/sexual assault largely goes unreported. And given the way that women are treated who make allegations of domestic violence, sexual assault, and sexual harassment, I would not be surprised if that is correct.
      - sp332 10y ago
        The study cited in that link (which I link directly below) says 20% of students who admitted to being raped said they reported it to police, compared to 32% of non-students.
- panglott 10y ago
  You'd think that students should be able to feel safe at least somewhere on campus! But apparently they don't accept that. I certainly understand and agree with the need for the university as a whole being a place where students with differing views and identities discuss and debate each other. But it is also necessary to the spirit of inquiry for like-minded people to be able to enjoy the freedom of association and speech. Just as I wouldn't want certain "safe spaces" to overtake the university as a whole, I wouldn't want them to be eliminated either.
kazagistar 10y ago
Using alternative definitions of terminology is disingenuous. A "safe space" is a place where certain speech and actions are prohibited, and people considered likely to participate in them are excluded. This, of course, is true everywhere, but in a "safe space" these restrictions are stronger. The university enforces a certain code of conduct globally, prohibiting clear abuses. When they prohibit safe spaces, they are saying that their standards of conduct should be sufficient, and that defining a stricter standard is not acceptable because at that point it would be considered censorship and exclusion.
- panglott 10y ago
  Universities are places where unpopular points of view must be entertained and debated. Expressing or advocating unpopular or unpleasant points of view is not against university codes of conduct—nor should it be. But must it then also be the case that associations of students cannot limit hostile discussion in smaller settings? Topics like the Israeli occupation of the West Bank or the efficacy of sexuality conversion therapy are things that can and should be debated in the university as a whole, but is it really the case that an association of Jewish or gay students must entertain hostile discussions of these topics in their private meetings? Consider the entirely reasonable passage in the UoC Student Manual [0]: The ideas of different members of the University community will frequently conflict, and we do not attempt to shield people from ideas that they may find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even offensive. Nor, as a general rule, does the University intervene to enforce social standards of civility. There are, however, some circumstances in which behavior so violates our community's standards that formal University intervention may be appropriate. The University may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the University. That clearly says the University will not police the content of debates, without implying that "safe spaces" are prohibited. [0] http://studentmanual.uchicago.edu/sites/studentmanual.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/StudentManual_2015-16_8.5.16.pdf http://studentmanual.uchicago.edu/sites/studentmanual.uchica...
  - 10y ago
pauljaworski 10y ago
No, they just don't want to pander to the entitled kids with victim complexes who think they shouldn't have to hear anything they disagree with.
metaphorm 10y ago
you're being downvoted for deliberately twisting the meaning

> They don't want students to have any spaces where they feel safe/accepted? That's weird. Why would a student need a special space to feel safe/accepted? Doesn't the university already provide students basic safety?

sp332 10y ago
No, students get harassed and raped at a pretty high rate. And suicide is the #2 cause of death among young adults. Physical security and "acceptance" is a big public health issue.
- djrogers 10y ago
  thays just not true - the rate of rape and sexual assault is lower for college students (at 6.1 per 1,000) than for non-students (7.6 per 1,000). [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/14/campus-rape-uva-crisis-rolling-stone-politics-column/20397277/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/12/14/campus-rape...
  - sp332 10y ago
    The cited study: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf It points out that students are very unlikely to report rape to the police, but somehow assumes that they will answer questions about it on a survey. It also shows wide variations from one year to another. It's not a bad study, but the data doesn't really inspire confidence. Edit: from page 3 "From 1997 to 2013, females ages 18 to 24 consistently experienced higher rates of rape and sexual assault than females in other age brackets." and from page 4: "However, there was no significant difference in the rates of female students and nonstudents who experienced attempted rape or other sexual assault. This suggests that differences in the rates of completed rape largely accounted for differences in the overall rates of rape and sexual assault between students and nonstudents."
  - panglott 10y ago
    The Instapundit is attempting to debunk public-health assessments of the incidence of sexual assault with crime-report data, when a key argument of anti-rape activists is that rape/sexual assault largely goes unreported. And given the way that women are treated who make allegations of domestic violence, sexual assault, and sexual harassment, I would not be surprised if that is correct.
    - sp332 10y ago
      The study cited in that link (which I link directly below) says 20% of students who admitted to being raped said they reported it to police, compared to 32% of non-students.
panglott 10y ago
You'd think that students should be able to feel safe at least somewhere on campus! But apparently they don't accept that. I certainly understand and agree with the need for the university as a whole being a place where students with differing views and identities discuss and debate each other. But it is also necessary to the spirit of inquiry for like-minded people to be able to enjoy the freedom of association and speech. Just as I wouldn't want certain "safe spaces" to overtake the university as a whole, I wouldn't want them to be eliminated either.

kazagistar 10y ago

Using alternative definitions of terminology is disingenuous. A "safe space" is a place where certain speech and actions are prohibited, and people considered likely to participate in them are excluded. This, of course, is true everywhere, but in a "safe space" these restrictions are stronger. The university enforces a certain code of conduct globally, prohibiting clear abuses. When they prohibit safe spaces, they are saying that their standards of conduct should be sufficient, and that defining a stricter standard is not acceptable because at that point it would be considered censorship and exclusion.

panglott 10y ago
Universities are places where unpopular points of view must be entertained and debated. Expressing or advocating unpopular or unpleasant points of view is not against university codes of conduct—nor should it be. But must it then also be the case that associations of students cannot limit hostile discussion in smaller settings? Topics like the Israeli occupation of the West Bank or the efficacy of sexuality conversion therapy are things that can and should be debated in the university as a whole, but is it really the case that an association of Jewish or gay students must entertain hostile discussions of these topics in their private meetings? Consider the entirely reasonable passage in the UoC Student Manual [0]: The ideas of different members of the University community will frequently conflict, and we do not attempt to shield people from ideas that they may find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even offensive. Nor, as a general rule, does the University intervene to enforce social standards of civility. There are, however, some circumstances in which behavior so violates our community's standards that formal University intervention may be appropriate. The University may restrict expression that violates the law, that falsely defames a specific individual, that constitutes a genuine threat or harassment, that unjustifiably invades substantial privacy or confidentiality interests, or that is otherwise directly incompatible with the functioning of the University. That clearly says the University will not police the content of debates, without implying that "safe spaces" are prohibited. [0] http://studentmanual.uchicago.edu/sites/studentmanual.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/StudentManual_2015-16_8.5.16.pdf http://studentmanual.uchicago.edu/sites/studentmanual.uchica...
- 10y ago

pauljaworski 10y ago

No, they just don't want to pander to the entitled kids with victim complexes who think they shouldn't have to hear anything they disagree with.

metaphorm 10y ago

you're being downvoted for deliberately twisting the meaning