4 ms·

Then you don't have principles, you have exorbitant prices for your labor. Principles can change, yes, but if they do so only because there is a reward involved

by Balgair 10y ago

Then you don't have principles, you have exorbitant prices for your labor. Principles can change, yes, but if they do so only because there is a reward involved, then you are no different than my cat near dinner time. In fact, my cat may have more principles as he wont stop puking on the rug no matter the bribe I give him.

driverdan 10y ago
No matter what people tell themselves everyone has their price.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Define price. There are many worlds that we all live in without money. In many worlds and cultures, that 'price' is your honor or the price of your soul. And the value of those types of things is often worth more than any amount of money. Cincinnatus is a good example of this, though there are many many others. When you read about the lives of monetarily wealthy people, they will often tell you that the money does not matter after a certain point. That family and friends matter. I agree with you that we all have a price, but for a lot of folk, that price is not measured in dollars, but in lives, in the soul, or in honor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
CalRobert 10y ago
Oh come on. Look, I don't like it either but we're talking about an awful lot of money. This is a pretty tired argument but the fact remains that if your scruples bother you you could take those billions and feed the hungry/house refugees/fund your own private messaging startup for the few people out there who care about privacy. The last part is sad, but really, most people just can't be arsed.
- sixstringtheory 10y ago
  I usually find that any arguments following the phrase "come on" are garbage. If you'll sell out millions of people who trusted you, and then pat yourself on the back for mailing a check to "help" another group of people you'll never know, then more power to you if that helps you sleep at night.
  - RodericDay 10y ago
    > I usually find that any arguments following the phrase "come on" are garbage. lmao this is really quite true.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Have you no honor or sense of duty then? What the hell is money anyways? Will your wife or husband really care if you make a dollar more or a million more? Will your true friends give a damn if you treat them to dinner every night and not be allowed to return the favor? What does your daughter mind if the book you read her before bed is engraved with gold? Does the extravagance of your son's wedding make any difference in his love for you? What a shallow life you must live if all you can think of is money. I'll grant, giving those dollars to the poor is a noble deed, but where did they come from, at what cost? Raise the taxes, encourage your representatives and senators to give much more to the poor and none of us have to pay for it with our souls.
  - tyleraldrich 10y ago
    You're talking about "honor and sense of duty" as if these people took 19 billion dollars to kill off 1 million innocent children or something. A single person didn't even make this decision. If you were the original creator of WhatsApp, no matter how "honorable" you are, you'll still get Ned Stark'd and everybody else will vote for $19 billion dollars over your silly "duty to the customers." Welcome to the real world.
  - RestlessMind 10y ago
    19B is a HUGE number, which literally changes lives. If my spouse and kids find out that I earned that much by switching my stance from "allowing no ads" to "allowing ads", then they would totally support me. Not just them, every single person I know (friends, family, coworkers..) would support my decision. And I have a fairly large social circle. So in that sense, changing one's stance is completely "normal"; whereas refusing 19B just so that "you won't have to serve ads" seems "abnormal".
NickM 10y ago
If I were in the position of WhatsApp, I would prefer not to sell user info on principle...but I might also have other principles that say I could do enough good in the world with $19B that it overcomes the evil of selling out a messaging app to Facebook. I get where you're coming from, but I think you're ignoring the utilitarian argument that can be made in this kind of situation.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> Then you don't have principles I'd say if you reject any offer at any price, you don't have principles. You have dogmas. Let's concoct a toy. You own 100% of a company. A suitor offers to buy it for $100bn. Not negotiable is that they will use 1,000 child laborers post-acquisition. One could say refusing the $100bn to "save" the thousand from child labor is principled. More compelling, at least for me, is that one turned down the opportunity to go to Mars or rid the world of the guinea worm and possibly other bugs or cure this or that in exchange for feeling good about delaying the hiring of a thousand children. Both calculi can become dangerous if taken too far. The balance arises in price.
- edmccard 10y ago
  >Let's concoct a toy. You own 100% of a company. A suitor offers to buy it for $100bn. Not negotiable is that they will use 1,000 child laborers post-acquisition. >[by] refusing the $100bn ... one turned down the opportunity to go to Mars or rid the world of the guinea worm and possibly other bugs or cure this or that The buyer that had the $100bn to spend also had those opportunities but was willing to exchange them for buying your company. So claiming the decision not to sell is somehow reducing e.g. the number of trips to Mars seems disingenuous.
nostrademons 10y ago
"And although he once had principles he abandoned them to live as a lapdog to a wealthy daughter of the revolution." -- Rent

by Balgair 10y ago

driverdan 10y ago

No matter what people tell themselves everyone has their price.

Balgair 10y ago
Define price. There are many worlds that we all live in without money. In many worlds and cultures, that 'price' is your honor or the price of your soul. And the value of those types of things is often worth more than any amount of money. Cincinnatus is a good example of this, though there are many many others. When you read about the lives of monetarily wealthy people, they will often tell you that the money does not matter after a certain point. That family and friends matter. I agree with you that we all have a price, but for a lot of folk, that price is not measured in dollars, but in lives, in the soul, or in honor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus

CalRobert 10y ago

Oh come on. Look, I don't like it either but we're talking about an awful lot of money. This is a pretty tired argument but the fact remains that if your scruples bother you you could take those billions and feed the hungry/house refugees/fund your own private messaging startup for the few people out there who care about privacy. The last part is sad, but really, most people just can't be arsed.

sixstringtheory 10y ago
I usually find that any arguments following the phrase "come on" are garbage. If you'll sell out millions of people who trusted you, and then pat yourself on the back for mailing a check to "help" another group of people you'll never know, then more power to you if that helps you sleep at night.
- RodericDay 10y ago
  > I usually find that any arguments following the phrase "come on" are garbage. lmao this is really quite true.
Balgair 10y ago
Have you no honor or sense of duty then? What the hell is money anyways? Will your wife or husband really care if you make a dollar more or a million more? Will your true friends give a damn if you treat them to dinner every night and not be allowed to return the favor? What does your daughter mind if the book you read her before bed is engraved with gold? Does the extravagance of your son's wedding make any difference in his love for you? What a shallow life you must live if all you can think of is money. I'll grant, giving those dollars to the poor is a noble deed, but where did they come from, at what cost? Raise the taxes, encourage your representatives and senators to give much more to the poor and none of us have to pay for it with our souls.
- tyleraldrich 10y ago
  You're talking about "honor and sense of duty" as if these people took 19 billion dollars to kill off 1 million innocent children or something. A single person didn't even make this decision. If you were the original creator of WhatsApp, no matter how "honorable" you are, you'll still get Ned Stark'd and everybody else will vote for $19 billion dollars over your silly "duty to the customers." Welcome to the real world.
- RestlessMind 10y ago
  19B is a HUGE number, which literally changes lives. If my spouse and kids find out that I earned that much by switching my stance from "allowing no ads" to "allowing ads", then they would totally support me. Not just them, every single person I know (friends, family, coworkers..) would support my decision. And I have a fairly large social circle. So in that sense, changing one's stance is completely "normal"; whereas refusing 19B just so that "you won't have to serve ads" seems "abnormal".

NickM 10y ago

If I were in the position of WhatsApp, I would prefer not to sell user info on principle...but I might also have other principles that say I could do enough good in the world with $19B that it overcomes the evil of selling out a messaging app to Facebook. I get where you're coming from, but I think you're ignoring the utilitarian argument that can be made in this kind of situation.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> Then you don't have principles I'd say if you reject any offer at any price, you don't have principles. You have dogmas. Let's concoct a toy. You own 100% of a company. A suitor offers to buy it for $100bn. Not negotiable is that they will use 1,000 child laborers post-acquisition. One could say refusing the $100bn to "save" the thousand from child labor is principled. More compelling, at least for me, is that one turned down the opportunity to go to Mars or rid the world of the guinea worm and possibly other bugs or cure this or that in exchange for feeling good about delaying the hiring of a thousand children. Both calculi can become dangerous if taken too far. The balance arises in price.

edmccard 10y ago
>Let's concoct a toy. You own 100% of a company. A suitor offers to buy it for $100bn. Not negotiable is that they will use 1,000 child laborers post-acquisition. >[by] refusing the $100bn ... one turned down the opportunity to go to Mars or rid the world of the guinea worm and possibly other bugs or cure this or that The buyer that had the $100bn to spend also had those opportunities but was willing to exchange them for buying your company. So claiming the decision not to sell is somehow reducing e.g. the number of trips to Mars seems disingenuous.

nostrademons 10y ago

"And although he once had principles he abandoned them to live as a lapdog to a wealthy daughter of the revolution." -- Rent