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Funny how times change... Some quotes from a What's App blog post from 4 years ago titled "Why we don't sell ads"[0] "Remember, when advertising is involved

Funny how times change... Some quotes from a What's App blog post from 4 years ago titled "Why we don't sell ads"[0] "Remember, when advertising is involved you the user are the product." "Your data isn't even in the picture. We are simply not interested in any of it." "When people ask us why we charge for WhatsApp, we say "Have you considered the alternative?" So they aren't showing ads themselves, but they are shipping your data out to another entity that is. Seems worse to me. [0] - https://blog.whatsapp.com/245/Why-we-dont-sell-ads https://blog.whatsapp.com/245/Why-we-dont-sell-ads?

PUSH_AX 10y ago
The price also changed.
chinathrow 10y ago
I don't think they ship your data elsewhere - I think they allow the users to opt-in for more communication by others, as said, e.g. the users bank. Though I have to admit, the opt-in is not mentioned as such. Edit: F*CK. It's opt out. https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016 https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016 That won't be legal in some european countries...
joeyspn 10y ago
$22B gives you enough bang for acquihiring a team and also their moral values. The vilified philosopher Groucho Marx once said: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Sad but very common these days...
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  Interesting question is if you sell out your app for a ton of cash, there isn't any structural issue preventing remaking it in the pre-sold out version (well maybe the original authors sign a doc that says they won't but others don't). So in theory you all can move another service with morals intact. But that is "hard" because your friends don't feel like moving. So the moralist says to their friends, "fine but I won't chat on whatsapp" and then they find their friends like them but not enough to change the app they use. So the moralist now has no friends (or they are always grumpy because their friends chose convienience over privacy) and they have to vent that frustration on the people who sold out. It is a really interconnected set of issues, where the simplest person to blame is often not the actual problem.
mtgx 10y ago
I guess their excuse is that then they were still an independent company. But everyone should know that this is Facebook's modus operandi now. "Relax everyone, we're just introducing this new type of tracking technology to improve our services and your security! It's not like we're going to use it for ads or anything like that - that's crazy talk. Just trust us." Two years later: "So, everyone, you know that tracking technology we launched earlier? Yeah, we're going to use it now to *improve you ad watching experience"! (you've already forgotten we promised not to do it, right? Okay, good.)"
RestlessMind 10y ago
Out of curiosity - will you compromise a little bit[1] on your principles if someone offers you 19 Billion USD? Honestly, I would. And I think almost all the people in the world would. So I don't see anything funny / surprising here. [1] - going from "won't show ads" to "ship data to someone else who will show ads" is not a big step. Just for perspective, some people are literally willing to kill others for far less.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Then you don't have principles, you have exorbitant prices for your labor. Principles can change, yes, but if they do so only because there is a reward involved, then you are no different than my cat near dinner time. In fact, my cat may have more principles as he wont stop puking on the rug no matter the bribe I give him.
  - driverdan 10y ago
    No matter what people tell themselves everyone has their price.
    - Balgair 10y ago
      Define price. There are many worlds that we all live in without money. In many worlds and cultures, that 'price' is your honor or the price of your soul. And the value of those types of things is often worth more than any amount of money. Cincinnatus is a good example of this, though there are many many others. When you read about the lives of monetarily wealthy people, they will often tell you that the money does not matter after a certain point. That family and friends matter. I agree with you that we all have a price, but for a lot of folk, that price is not measured in dollars, but in lives, in the soul, or in honor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
  - CalRobert 10y ago
    Oh come on. Look, I don't like it either but we're talking about an awful lot of money. This is a pretty tired argument but the fact remains that if your scruples bother you you could take those billions and feed the hungry/house refugees/fund your own private messaging startup for the few people out there who care about privacy. The last part is sad, but really, most people just can't be arsed.
Longhanks 10y ago
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Jayakumark 10y ago
Whatsapp founders mind voice - We just turned our users in to product because thats the best way to get billions in our bank account.

PUSH_AX 10y ago

The price also changed.

chinathrow 10y ago

I don't think they ship your data elsewhere - I think they allow the users to opt-in for more communication by others, as said, e.g. the users bank. Though I have to admit, the opt-in is not mentioned as such. Edit: F*CK. It's opt out. https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016 https://www.whatsapp.com/faq/general/26000016 That won't be legal in some european countries...

joeyspn 10y ago

$22B gives you enough bang for acquihiring a team and also their moral values. The vilified philosopher Groucho Marx once said: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." Sad but very common these days...

ChuckMcM 10y ago
Interesting question is if you sell out your app for a ton of cash, there isn't any structural issue preventing remaking it in the pre-sold out version (well maybe the original authors sign a doc that says they won't but others don't). So in theory you all can move another service with morals intact. But that is "hard" because your friends don't feel like moving. So the moralist says to their friends, "fine but I won't chat on whatsapp" and then they find their friends like them but not enough to change the app they use. So the moralist now has no friends (or they are always grumpy because their friends chose convienience over privacy) and they have to vent that frustration on the people who sold out. It is a really interconnected set of issues, where the simplest person to blame is often not the actual problem.

mtgx 10y ago

I guess their excuse is that then they were still an independent company. But everyone should know that this is Facebook's modus operandi now. "Relax everyone, we're just introducing this new type of tracking technology to improve our services and your security! It's not like we're going to use it for ads or anything like that - that's crazy talk. Just trust us." Two years later: "So, everyone, you know that tracking technology we launched earlier? Yeah, we're going to use it now to *improve you ad watching experience"! (you've already forgotten we promised not to do it, right? Okay, good.)"

RestlessMind 10y ago

Out of curiosity - will you compromise a little bit[1] on your principles if someone offers you 19 Billion USD? Honestly, I would. And I think almost all the people in the world would. So I don't see anything funny / surprising here. [1] - going from "won't show ads" to "ship data to someone else who will show ads" is not a big step. Just for perspective, some people are literally willing to kill others for far less.

Balgair 10y ago
Then you don't have principles, you have exorbitant prices for your labor. Principles can change, yes, but if they do so only because there is a reward involved, then you are no different than my cat near dinner time. In fact, my cat may have more principles as he wont stop puking on the rug no matter the bribe I give him.
- driverdan 10y ago
  No matter what people tell themselves everyone has their price.
  - Balgair 10y ago
    Define price. There are many worlds that we all live in without money. In many worlds and cultures, that 'price' is your honor or the price of your soul. And the value of those types of things is often worth more than any amount of money. Cincinnatus is a good example of this, though there are many many others. When you read about the lives of monetarily wealthy people, they will often tell you that the money does not matter after a certain point. That family and friends matter. I agree with you that we all have a price, but for a lot of folk, that price is not measured in dollars, but in lives, in the soul, or in honor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Quinctius_Cincinnatus
- CalRobert 10y ago
  Oh come on. Look, I don't like it either but we're talking about an awful lot of money. This is a pretty tired argument but the fact remains that if your scruples bother you you could take those billions and feed the hungry/house refugees/fund your own private messaging startup for the few people out there who care about privacy. The last part is sad, but really, most people just can't be arsed.

Longhanks 10y ago

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Jayakumark 10y ago

Whatsapp founders mind voice - We just turned our users in to product because thats the best way to get billions in our bank account.