5 ms·

Recovering Atari ST ASIC Designs

116 points by walkingolof 10y ago

Noseshine 10y ago
Ah memories... and my personal progress over time: My very first calculator: [0] My first slide rule: [1] (for two years or so, then we switched to electronic calculators) Before I could afford a computer I spent a a few years on computers I didn't own, ZX Spectrum, C64, C128, 8bit Atari, KC85/1,2,3, but also LC 80 [2] My 1st (own) computer: East German 8 bit KC85/4 with the CAOS operating system (the makers had a good sense of humor, it means "Cassette-Aided OS") [3][4]. Mass-storage was ones regular stereo cassette radio recorder, a floppy disc drive was available but rare. My 2nd computer: Atari 1040 STFM [5] - bought with my first West German money after reunification! Finally 16 bit! Atari ST software worth mentioning: "Script 2" was a wonderful word processor for Atari [6]. When used in combination with the (for the time) excellent black/white monitor and a 24 needle printer (Epson LQ 580) I got near laser printer quality through the special drivers of that program. Worst Atari incident: I had a capacitor (literally) blow up on me with a very loud BANG!. I'll end with the Atari. The next one - for my studies - was a 486DX33 8MB RAM machine with Windows 3.1, soon RedHat Linux (1995). Thanks to the student network I could start large programs like Netscape on another student's Pentium PC (in another building) and export the display until I was able to upgrade to 16 MB RAM... and all the usual mid-1990s Unix systems, also available remotely thanks to the network. [0] My grandfathers calculator (really!) http://i.imgur.com/jBDUHPp.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jBDUHPp.jpg [1] My slide rule: http://ossikult.de/ossi/images/product_images/original_images/img_2552.jpg http://ossikult.de/ossi/images/product_images/original_image... [2] LC 80 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC80#/media/File:Lc80offen.jpg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC80#/media/File:Lc80offen.jpg [3] KC 85/4 picture https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/KC85-4.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/KC85-4.j... [4] KC 85/4 Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KC_85 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KC_85 [5] Atari 1040 STFM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST#/media/File:Atari_ST_1040.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST#/media/File:Atari_ST_... - just like mine was, minus the hard drive [6] Atari ST word processor Script 2 http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1990/10/script-2 http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1990/10/script-2
- strictnein 10y ago
  Really neat stuff. Question on the KC 85/4 - was the cable between the keyboard and computer really as short as it looks in that picture?
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    No, most of the cable is hidden in that picture.
- SwellJoe 10y ago
  The picture of the Atari ST linked in 5 also happens to have the back of a Fairlight CMI (Computer Musical Instrument) in it, which is a piece of history itself, and dwarfs the price/rarity of the ST. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI The ST was strong in the music industry, particularly in Europe, because of its built-in MIDI interface.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    As a long term pen and paper gamer, i can't see the name Fairlight without thinking of Shadowrun. There Fairlight brand cyberdecks were the cream of the crop of preconstructed decks.
walkingolof 10y ago
Atari's chip company Styra (from the article) got me to search a bit and its only mentioned on 3 sites according to google, and this goldmine for an Atari fan was one of them: http://mcurrent.name/atarihistory/tramel_technology.html http://mcurrent.name/atarihistory/tramel_technology.html
Annatar 10y ago
This is amazing! Time to fire up my Atari Falcon again (anyone out there willing to sell a CT63?) These schematics could be used to implement the entire Atari STE's or Falcon 030's in a single FPGA. In phase two, new chips could be added, or existing chips enhanced (Blitter with texel and shading support, anyone?) The best part is, as the Amiga 600 Vampire II accelerator proved, the FPGA implementation could be anywhere from ten to 50 times faster and cheaper than the original hardware![1] The possibilities are endless with these schematics... [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=lEjtc6JWlsk https://youtube.com/watch?v=lEjtc6JWlsk
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  It's worth pointing out that the entire Atari ST has been already done in a single FPGA. See the MiST project: http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml I'm sure there are things to be learned from the ASIC designs that could improve the GLUE/MMU/Blitter/Shifter etc. VHDL. But they already work really well. The rest of the Atari ST is off the shelf (mostly Motorola) chips.
larsbrinkhoff 10y ago
There's also an effort to decap the ASICs and take die photos to reverse engineer the schematics: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29658 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29658 (Shifter, display controller) http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30241 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30241 (MMU, memory controller)

116 points by walkingolof 10y ago

Ah memories... and my personal progress over time: My very first calculator: [0] My first slide rule: [1] (for two years or so, then we switched to electronic calculators) Before I could afford a computer I spent a a few years on computers I didn't own, ZX Spectrum, C64, C128, 8bit Atari, KC85/1,2,3, but also LC 80 [2] My 1st (own) computer: East German 8 bit KC85/4 with the CAOS operating system (the makers had a good sense of humor, it means "Cassette-Aided OS") [3][4]. Mass-storage was ones regular stereo cassette radio recorder, a floppy disc drive was available but rare. My 2nd computer: Atari 1040 STFM [5] - bought with my first West German money after reunification! Finally 16 bit! Atari ST software worth mentioning: "Script 2" was a wonderful word processor for Atari [6]. When used in combination with the (for the time) excellent black/white monitor and a 24 needle printer (Epson LQ 580) I got near laser printer quality through the special drivers of that program. Worst Atari incident: I had a capacitor (literally) blow up on me with a very loud BANG!. I'll end with the Atari. The next one - for my studies - was a 486DX33 8MB RAM machine with Windows 3.1, soon RedHat Linux (1995). Thanks to the student network I could start large programs like Netscape on another student's Pentium PC (in another building) and export the display until I was able to upgrade to 16 MB RAM... and all the usual mid-1990s Unix systems, also available remotely thanks to the network. [0] My grandfathers calculator (really!) http://i.imgur.com/jBDUHPp.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jBDUHPp.jpg [1] My slide rule: http://ossikult.de/ossi/images/product_images/original_images/img_2552.jpg http://ossikult.de/ossi/images/product_images/original_image... [2] LC 80 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC80#/media/File:Lc80offen.jpg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC80#/media/File:Lc80offen.jpg [3] KC 85/4 picture https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/KC85-4.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/KC85-4.j... [4] KC 85/4 Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KC_85 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KC_85 [5] Atari 1040 STFM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST#/media/File:Atari_ST_1040.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_ST#/media/File:Atari_ST_... - just like mine was, minus the hard drive [6] Atari ST word processor Script 2 http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1990/10/script-2 http://www.stcarchiv.de/stc1990/10/script-2

strictnein 10y ago
Really neat stuff. Question on the KC 85/4 - was the cable between the keyboard and computer really as short as it looks in that picture?
- Noseshine 10y ago
  No, most of the cable is hidden in that picture.
SwellJoe 10y ago
The picture of the Atari ST linked in 5 also happens to have the back of a Fairlight CMI (Computer Musical Instrument) in it, which is a piece of history itself, and dwarfs the price/rarity of the ST. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI The ST was strong in the music industry, particularly in Europe, because of its built-in MIDI interface.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  As a long term pen and paper gamer, i can't see the name Fairlight without thinking of Shadowrun. There Fairlight brand cyberdecks were the cream of the crop of preconstructed decks.

walkingolof 10y ago

Atari's chip company Styra (from the article) got me to search a bit and its only mentioned on 3 sites according to google, and this goldmine for an Atari fan was one of them: http://mcurrent.name/atarihistory/tramel_technology.html http://mcurrent.name/atarihistory/tramel_technology.html

Annatar 10y ago

This is amazing! Time to fire up my Atari Falcon again (anyone out there willing to sell a CT63?) These schematics could be used to implement the entire Atari STE's or Falcon 030's in a single FPGA. In phase two, new chips could be added, or existing chips enhanced (Blitter with texel and shading support, anyone?) The best part is, as the Amiga 600 Vampire II accelerator proved, the FPGA implementation could be anywhere from ten to 50 times faster and cheaper than the original hardware![1] The possibilities are endless with these schematics... [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=lEjtc6JWlsk https://youtube.com/watch?v=lEjtc6JWlsk

cmrdporcupine 10y ago
It's worth pointing out that the entire Atari ST has been already done in a single FPGA. See the MiST project: http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml http://harbaum.org/till/mist/index.shtml I'm sure there are things to be learned from the ASIC designs that could improve the GLUE/MMU/Blitter/Shifter etc. VHDL. But they already work really well. The rest of the Atari ST is off the shelf (mostly Motorola) chips.

larsbrinkhoff 10y ago

There's also an effort to decap the ASICs and take die photos to reverse engineer the schematics: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29658 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29658 (Shifter, display controller) http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30241 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=30241 (MMU, memory controller)