5 ms·

Remember when people used to complain about minor desktop UI inconsistencies like submenu activation, button frames and default icons? Thanks to years getting p

by mhd 10y ago

Remember when people used to complain about minor desktop UI inconsistencies like submenu activation, button frames and default icons? Thanks to years getting people accustomed to the usability nightmare that is the web, this doesn't seem to be an issue anymore.

oblio 10y ago
Meh. After all, the dominant OS before mobile was Windows. Remember Winamp skins? Skins for every possible app on the face of the Earth? Opening up Skype, which had its own theming, Yahoo Messenger, which had its own theming, Office 2003, which had its own theming, etc., etc., etc. Except for Mac OS fans, most of the world didn't really care.
- derefr 10y ago
  HCI people complained about those when they were happening, too. The default controls of Windows 95 (and later, Windows 2000) were held up as great usability; the apps that ignored them, not so much.
  - oblio 10y ago
    True. I was just pointing out the disconnect between the market and the experts on this one :)
- biokoda 10y ago
  > Except for Mac OS fans, most of the world didn't really care. Just because it was used does not mean people didn't care. They had no say or choice in the matter.
- mhd 10y ago
  I remember quite a lot of complaints about those Office changes, or different styles that came from using Borland C++, Delphi or even cross-platform tools. If you were doing commercial development, that mattered. End users don't exactly complain about specifics, they just ditched your program because it was "odd". Let's not even mention Unix. But yeah, Mac OS users were particularly obnoxious there, as usual.
  - sime2009 10y ago
    > End users don't exactly complain about specifics, they just ditched your program because it was "odd". Except that they don't. If that were true then we would see a lot more consistency in desktop app styles. The typical desktop computer experience hasn't been visually consistent since the mid 90's. Most young people have never used a computer where most of the apps had the same style.
- flukus 10y ago
  I remember bringing this up every time someone complained that java didn't look native.
  - oblio 10y ago
    While Java was quite a eyesore due to lack of investment in Swing, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of users who hated Java apps hated them because they were so incredibly slow to load.
ORioN63 10y ago
I still care. That's why I'm so in love with the terminal. One interface to rule them all.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  > One interface to rule them all. What does that even mean? GUIs have quite obviously commanded a vast lead in popularity over terminals ever since they were invented. So, they don't "rule" in that sense. Do you mean to say that you somehow "rule over the GUI using peoples of the world" because you use a terminal and maybe you write code or do sysadmin work that all the GUI users have to report to? I doubt that's actually the case because your boss is probably a GUI user who tells you what to do. I don't think the terminal is ruling anything. I think some people are just fond of trite sayings that seem to enhance their own stature.
  - abiox 10y ago
    I think it's just a playful reference to Lord of the Rings.
Touche 10y ago
> Thanks to years getting people accustomed to the usability nightmare that is the web You mean the nightmare that is typing an address into a input (or just searching on Google) and being able to near-instantly use an app, even really bad applications that we all complain about? That nightmare? I'll take it over per-platform applications that have different UI paradigms and that I must install/support manually myself.
- nilved 10y ago
  Yes, that nightmare.
- kitsunesoba 10y ago
  Usability and accessibility are separate, though related. Yes, websites are easy to get to and start using, but that won't help a badly designed web app be less bad or mitigate the impact of weird, non standard conventions and interactions. A well designed desktop app will be more pleasant to use than a badly designed web app despite the added overhead of installation. And of course, things can be done to cut the friction of installation down to a minimum, e.g. using fully self contained binaries, distributing zipped executables instead of installers, and including robust self update capabilities (on platforms without package management).

by mhd 10y ago

oblio 10y ago

Meh. After all, the dominant OS before mobile was Windows. Remember Winamp skins? Skins for every possible app on the face of the Earth? Opening up Skype, which had its own theming, Yahoo Messenger, which had its own theming, Office 2003, which had its own theming, etc., etc., etc. Except for Mac OS fans, most of the world didn't really care.

derefr 10y ago
HCI people complained about those when they were happening, too. The default controls of Windows 95 (and later, Windows 2000) were held up as great usability; the apps that ignored them, not so much.
- oblio 10y ago
  True. I was just pointing out the disconnect between the market and the experts on this one :)
biokoda 10y ago
> Except for Mac OS fans, most of the world didn't really care. Just because it was used does not mean people didn't care. They had no say or choice in the matter.
mhd 10y ago
I remember quite a lot of complaints about those Office changes, or different styles that came from using Borland C++, Delphi or even cross-platform tools. If you were doing commercial development, that mattered. End users don't exactly complain about specifics, they just ditched your program because it was "odd". Let's not even mention Unix. But yeah, Mac OS users were particularly obnoxious there, as usual.
- sime2009 10y ago
  > End users don't exactly complain about specifics, they just ditched your program because it was "odd". Except that they don't. If that were true then we would see a lot more consistency in desktop app styles. The typical desktop computer experience hasn't been visually consistent since the mid 90's. Most young people have never used a computer where most of the apps had the same style.
flukus 10y ago
I remember bringing this up every time someone complained that java didn't look native.
- oblio 10y ago
  While Java was quite a eyesore due to lack of investment in Swing, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of users who hated Java apps hated them because they were so incredibly slow to load.

ORioN63 10y ago

I still care. That's why I'm so in love with the terminal. One interface to rule them all.

WayneBro 10y ago
> One interface to rule them all. What does that even mean? GUIs have quite obviously commanded a vast lead in popularity over terminals ever since they were invented. So, they don't "rule" in that sense. Do you mean to say that you somehow "rule over the GUI using peoples of the world" because you use a terminal and maybe you write code or do sysadmin work that all the GUI users have to report to? I doubt that's actually the case because your boss is probably a GUI user who tells you what to do. I don't think the terminal is ruling anything. I think some people are just fond of trite sayings that seem to enhance their own stature.
- abiox 10y ago
  I think it's just a playful reference to Lord of the Rings.

Touche 10y ago

> Thanks to years getting people accustomed to the usability nightmare that is the web You mean the nightmare that is typing an address into a input (or just searching on Google) and being able to near-instantly use an app, even really bad applications that we all complain about? That nightmare? I'll take it over per-platform applications that have different UI paradigms and that I must install/support manually myself.

nilved 10y ago
Yes, that nightmare.
kitsunesoba 10y ago
Usability and accessibility are separate, though related. Yes, websites are easy to get to and start using, but that won't help a badly designed web app be less bad or mitigate the impact of weird, non standard conventions and interactions. A well designed desktop app will be more pleasant to use than a badly designed web app despite the added overhead of installation. And of course, things can be done to cut the friction of installation down to a minimum, e.g. using fully self contained binaries, distributing zipped executables instead of installers, and including robust self update capabilities (on platforms without package management).