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This. It important to note that there are SO many factors that we don't know that can prevent habitability (for Earth definitions of habitability). We will need

This. It important to note that there are SO many factors that we don't know that can prevent habitability (for Earth definitions of habitability). We will need detailed study of its atmosphere to really understand habitability, and even then there are many mechanisms (e.g. volcanism) that can produce false positive biosignatures. For all we know, this planet could still have a hydrogen atmosphere (i.e. more akin to a Hot Neptune). Still, this is a really exciting discovery and will prompt a lot of follow-up studies in the future to really understand the system.

panglott 10y ago
Yep, but even if it is not anything close to habitable (as it likely is not), it seems like we could learn a huge amount about about the habitability of red dwarf systems in general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_syst...
mjhoy 10y ago
Indeed. This is one of my favorite Wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis
- nonbel 10y ago
  >"Venus mean surface temperature is 735 K (462 °C; 863 °F) making Venus the hottest planet in the Solar System. Earth had a similar early atmosphere to Venus, but lost it in the giant impact event." Ever since I saw it done in the new Universe series, a pet peeve of mine has been treating the giant impact hypothesis as some kind of established fact. Even the name on the wikipedia page includes the term "hypothesis": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis The hubris surrounding the presentation of that particular hypothesis to the public is really, really awful. I actually stopped watching that new Universe series mid-episode after hearing it presented as fact (this was sometime in the first few episodes, maybe the first episode) and stopped reading this wikipedia page just now.
camelNotation 10y ago
There are so many potential reasons why life would be incapable of existing on a planet in the "Goldilocks Zone" that we can't even fathom. It could even come down to something as simple as the infinite potential variations in elemental composition for a given planet. Not to mention the sheer enormity of time required for something like abiogenesis to occur and those forms of life to evolve into something we could actually discover, even when the conditions are suitable. We can't calculate those odds. We can't even start. It's like trying to calculate the likelihood that future AI will destroy humanity. We just can't know because it's so deeply theoretical. For that reason, it seems absolutely absurd to me that someone would say with certainty that life exists elsewhere in the universe. We just can't know. The unlikelihood of its existence could be infinitely high and we might just be lottery winners. Who knows? And frankly, I hope we're alone. I really don't want to share the universe. It would be so much nicer just to have it to ourselves. Let us do what we want, wherever we want, without interference until the heat death of everything.
- jaxomlotus 10y ago
  Nobody says with certainty that life exists. But they do say the probability is so high that life in some form exists elsewhere, you might as well be certain. As for not sharing the universe: what a depressing thought.
  - camelNotation 10y ago
    Why is that depressing? It's not like we would actually be ALONE. We have each other. We don't need Vulcans or whatever else to keep us company and suck up our resources.
    - andrewflnr 10y ago
      When you put it that way, it doesn't actually matter. There's always going to be someone competing for resources. The only difference is whether they have hands or tentacles.
      - 10y ago
nix0n 10y ago
Life ... finds a way
- k__ 10y ago
  I think the problem here isn't that life needs to find a way. The universe is huge, really huge, so huge that even the distances to other planets in our solar system are so vast, that when you would consider the earth 1mm big, these distances would still cover thousands of kilometers. It's not possible to draw a liniarly scaled map of our solar system, so big is it. Good news: life has plenty of space and probably also plenty of planets to find its way multiple times in the universe :) Bad news: we probably won't find this life ):
pharrington 10y ago
There's life on Earth that thrives without atmosphere or sunlight. We should probably first develop a more complete, general framework for how carbon based chemical structures synthesize and transfer energy. It seems silly to narrow the search for alien life to "places that vaguely resemble Earth" when that criteria is already next to meaningless on Earth itself.

panglott 10y ago

Yep, but even if it is not anything close to habitable (as it likely is not), it seems like we could learn a huge amount about about the habitability of red dwarf systems in general. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitability_of_red_dwarf_syst...

mjhoy 10y ago

Indeed. This is one of my favorite Wikipedia articles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis

nonbel 10y ago
>"Venus mean surface temperature is 735 K (462 °C; 863 °F) making Venus the hottest planet in the Solar System. Earth had a similar early atmosphere to Venus, but lost it in the giant impact event." Ever since I saw it done in the new Universe series, a pet peeve of mine has been treating the giant impact hypothesis as some kind of established fact. Even the name on the wikipedia page includes the term "hypothesis": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis The hubris surrounding the presentation of that particular hypothesis to the public is really, really awful. I actually stopped watching that new Universe series mid-episode after hearing it presented as fact (this was sometime in the first few episodes, maybe the first episode) and stopped reading this wikipedia page just now.

camelNotation 10y ago

There are so many potential reasons why life would be incapable of existing on a planet in the "Goldilocks Zone" that we can't even fathom. It could even come down to something as simple as the infinite potential variations in elemental composition for a given planet. Not to mention the sheer enormity of time required for something like abiogenesis to occur and those forms of life to evolve into something we could actually discover, even when the conditions are suitable. We can't calculate those odds. We can't even start. It's like trying to calculate the likelihood that future AI will destroy humanity. We just can't know because it's so deeply theoretical. For that reason, it seems absolutely absurd to me that someone would say with certainty that life exists elsewhere in the universe. We just can't know. The unlikelihood of its existence could be infinitely high and we might just be lottery winners. Who knows? And frankly, I hope we're alone. I really don't want to share the universe. It would be so much nicer just to have it to ourselves. Let us do what we want, wherever we want, without interference until the heat death of everything.

jaxomlotus 10y ago
Nobody says with certainty that life exists. But they do say the probability is so high that life in some form exists elsewhere, you might as well be certain. As for not sharing the universe: what a depressing thought.
- camelNotation 10y ago
  Why is that depressing? It's not like we would actually be ALONE. We have each other. We don't need Vulcans or whatever else to keep us company and suck up our resources.
  - andrewflnr 10y ago
    When you put it that way, it doesn't actually matter. There's always going to be someone competing for resources. The only difference is whether they have hands or tentacles.
    - 10y ago

nix0n 10y ago

Life ... finds a way

k__ 10y ago
I think the problem here isn't that life needs to find a way. The universe is huge, really huge, so huge that even the distances to other planets in our solar system are so vast, that when you would consider the earth 1mm big, these distances would still cover thousands of kilometers. It's not possible to draw a liniarly scaled map of our solar system, so big is it. Good news: life has plenty of space and probably also plenty of planets to find its way multiple times in the universe :) Bad news: we probably won't find this life ):

pharrington 10y ago

There's life on Earth that thrives without atmosphere or sunlight. We should probably first develop a more complete, general framework for how carbon based chemical structures synthesize and transfer energy. It seems silly to narrow the search for alien life to "places that vaguely resemble Earth" when that criteria is already next to meaningless on Earth itself.